Turtlerock Forum

An invoice from a session (1 day session) I did 10 weeks ago is unpaid.. When I email the client he says he is paying it...but it doesn't come. He keeps on making excuses... and is playing some sort of game.
This was a one off session with a person I'd never worked with..but he is very happy with the job....

Over the years, I never had a non paying client before.
What course of action do you guys take if something like this happens?


Advice is very welcomed.

Thanks

I take the "you get more money with honey approach" 8)

Something along the lines of (said in caring voice)......

"Is everything okay mate, is something going on? Do we need to work out some sort of payment plan?"

etc etc

Threats will get you butt farg all, I reckon.

Be a nice guy about it, there may be some big reason why he is not paying.



Also, having been down this road before, I don't release anything to anyone, without full payment nowadays

That is explained, right up front at the outset.

Good luck.

cheers

Wiz

All niceties have been explored.
He offered to get cash out at the end of session but I offered to invoice as I was running late for a meeting. I usually hold files until payment...but I didn't on this occasion.
Any action that can be recommended to spur on payment?

send the Pirahna brothers around for a visit?

Ouch!

Threaten to release the files for online remixes and public domain use.

The idea that he is just going to duck off and grab cash seems dubious to me. Do you think he ever intends on paying? The answer to that is the deciding factor in the next step to take, I think.

It depends how you want it to play out. For the most ruthless and bleedingly obvious non-payers and scammers, we have issued a warning to the surrounding rehearsal and recording studios in the past. Nothing in public, more a direct phone call or an email with a photograph and a statement. We are talking on very rare occasions, and situations of brazen dishonesty including things like forged direct deposit receipts. Unsurprisingly, we weren't the sole target.

Perhaps the first port of call is to try and ascertain which side of the fence this guy sits. Will he pay if pressed hard enough? Or does he intend on never paying? Perhaps a firm and direct email with a clear payment deadline is in order. Followed with a clear statement about the course of action that will follow if it isn't met - whether that be publicly naming and shaming, or issuing warnings to other studios, or pursing the matter legally, or offering the recordings up for public use is up to you. If he isn't phased currently, it would have to be something to light a fire under his arse.

At some point though, the time and effort it takes to retrieve the money owed outweighs the money owed! At that point, it is a notch on the belt of lessons learned in life, and a quiet beer while contemplating how great the vast majority of the people are whom you make music with. Don't let some f&%ker put a dampener on that.

Drumstruck wrote:send the Pirahna brothers around for a visit?

Doug AND Dynsdale?

He knew all the tricks, dramatic irony, metaphor, pathos, puns, parody, litotes and... satire. He was vicious.

Wiz wrote:

Drumstruck wrote:send the Pirahna brothers around for a visit?

Doug AND Dynsdale?

I prefer to use Rocco and Moose.

I've been in this position a number of times. When it seems like I'm being dicked around beyond anything that might be reasonable.
I phone the dude and simply state "you don't intend to pay me, do you". I then move on to the next job. That client is duely noted.
It all comes around in the end.

If I get to the point of having to send an invoice for the third time, I add interest terms (eg 10% every 30 days). If that doesn't work, I have a template I wrote up ages ago saying I'll take them to the Small Claims Court. Only ever had to send that one once and it worked pretty quickly! I think it's a little bit of an empty threat, but it's easy enough to email through.

Thank you for the genuine replies.
Trying one last "nice" approach.

I have a bit of a different approach
First i assume we are all the same
Living feast and famine

I have certainly been very slow in paying many
Bills in this business but i have paid everything

I have one unpaid bill owing to me ever

in nearly Thirty years
Never had to go to court
Never had to write off the money
So my approach works ( for me )

But here is the basic facts
You can chase that money for 7 years
If he doesnt pay anything at all
and 7 years from the last
Time he paid anything .

Basically ring him up
Send him an email .. Get yourself on equal terms
Let him know you cant afford to go without
Any more then he can

In my experience musicians have this wierd
"They have more then me , so i dont need to pay them
Cos they are rich attitude "

And the killer is a client that owes you $100 bucks
For ages will hire somebody else next time instead
Of facing the embarrassment of dealing with you again
So dont let any dollars slip

So remove the elephant from the room
Its a shit feeling but .. Keep communicating
Put up with the excuses ( 80% of them will be real)
But DO not write off the debt .

Having people owe you money you didnt collect
Makes people abstractly bitter ...

i see it all the time
And i ask why did you let it go
They say " it wasnt worth it "

Get your guy to agree to a payment plan 10 bucks a week whatever
I had a guy send me 10 buck a month for years
Bless his broke arse .. He still books and pays for jobs 20 years on

As i said i have certainly been the guy that couldnt
Pay a lot of times in my life ( stuff happens accept it )

But you pay your debts and its a win for you and them

People who make music are inherently good souls
And inherently bad with money
But They have a musicians desire to please
So Stay in contact , do not drop it
It just comes with the territory
Patience is the key .. Forget about the amount of money
Think of it as practice for when a label owes you
Tens of thousands for years ..

All that said nearly every time i get the feeling i shouldnt
Have handed over the tapes without payment
I get stiffed for a while
I am still learning how to say no money no goods


Musicians desire to please and all that .

totally agree with rick
never let a dollar go - it will cost you more in the future from not getting repeat work.
even do a deal to do MORE work provided they pay both upfront

and yes, you will need the practice for when the label/ corporate etc owes you big, and you really need it to keep functioning.

Interesting thread!

i would also say its most important to be pre-emptive
have solid terms of trade
follow up accounts before they become debts
follow up debts before they become bad debts
and use your legal rights (and hopefully the ones you have set out in your terms of trade) to your advantage.

That's wise counsel from rick as usual

I've got a client who couldn't afford to pay me who has set up an automatic debit/credit system in his online banking to pay me a pittance each week. This system doesn't tax him unduly and I'll eventually get my money so it's a win win.

And hopefully he'll come back again…

This might work for you.

yes the small sum each week can work
also - think laterally... if (as rick mentions) they really are struggling and something hasnt gone their way. (lost their job say)
what about - oh you are a carpenter arnt you?
i need a new deck on my house.
how about you come over and do that few days work - and we will call it square.

not something that always works, but ive done it once i twice, and both parties are "happy" and you get something back.