Turtlerock Forum

From a newsletter I subscribe too:

http://thechronicleherald.ca/Entertainment/559846.html

You can read the piece for yourself but I’ll save you the trouble and just excerpt the opening sentence.

<<<Legendary music producer Bob Ezrin says the much talked about imminent demise of the record business is already here. “People are not going to the record store and are not paying for downloads," says the man who discovered Alice Cooper, produced Pink Floyd’s The Wall and worked with David Bowie, Peter Gabriel and KISS, among other superstars.>>>>

A more blatant example of what I’m referring to could not be made. I am a fan of Ezrin’s important contributions to the world of music. I mean no disrespect. In fact, if I’m to be honest, I should be so lucky as to accomplish half as he. But he is not an economist. Rather, he is an example of a new breed of music business personality: the angry old-timer. I’m not even sure what marketing reports are feeding their conclusions. My guess is that their sole source for their doom-n-gloom viewpoint is their personal royalty/commission checks. A diminishing asset, I have little doubt. I’m sure when you’re the manager of wrinkle-rock mega-groups like Floyd or Gabriel, and comfortable seeing commissions in the six figures a month and suddenly those numbers start dropping down to $50,000 a month, then $40,000, it’s easy to start thinking the world is coming to an end.

But over 2 billion downloads on iTunes, Yahoo, e-Music et al and the sale of over 500 Million confirmed CD album sales in the US last year alone does not seem to jibe with the statement “People are not going to the record store and are not paying for downloads.”

What Ezrin really means is this: the music business that he and others of his elk understood is changing so fast that they must feel like high-school guidance counselors slammed in the whirlwind of a Mosh pit. In their day they argued with labels over things like tour support and mechanical royalties. Pedestrian. Today’s major label negotiation involves nomenclature like: cross-aggregation, tethered downloads, ethereal DRM, merch-cooping and web-rights. I kid you not when I say that many of these veterans would not know how to finesse those points.

It’s likely that those who prospered in the 70s and 80s may no-longer pay their $10,000 a month mortgage or their $1200 a month car payment solely from passive income derived via CD royalties. So, it must be very hard for them to reconcile the fact that the business they grew up in, the business that they helped mold, has metamorphosed and their place in it has receded into the penumbra of its progress. It’s far hipper and far easier to simply condemn it.

Now… to the 25 year-old who is excited about making $75,000 a year by doing something he loves-- music, the biz is far from dead. To the groups that are able to support their families by grossing a mere $300,000 a year, independently of a label (and I have several clients who are doing that) the biz is far from dead. To the guy who made a cool 20 second loop in his garage and is getting $1000 a month in extra dough from ring-tone sales, the biz is far from dead.

Old-timers can not reconcile these paltry numbers. To them it must seem ridiculous that today’s emerging artist aspires NOT a major label contract. Rather he prefers to make 100,000 “friends” on MySpace. He revels in getting a great, local, home-town sponsor for $50,000 instead of a million dollar deal that will make him a whore for Pepsi; is happy to make $7.00 profit that he can put in his pocket TODAY from a CD he sold off the side of the stage, over $0.94 two years after the label liquidates his reserve and only after he sells 1,000,000 units; or taking a big advance that in three years will leave him wondering what to do with his career after the label drops him.

But to the old-timers, this all sounds rather low rez. Where is the guarantee of $50,000 a night for a fifteen city tour (that I can commission)? Where is the $1,000,000 advance for five albums (that I can commission)? And how about a seven figure publishing deal (that I can commission)? That all-you-can-eat buffet has been subjected to a Balsamic reduction. It’s now a pre-fixe menu of grinding out a decent, proletariat living from the making of great art.

No. We are very much alive. Like the medical and legal industries, recent changes in economics have forced many to re-think why they are interested in becoming doctors or lawyers. You must now love what you do. The money alone cannot be the driving factor anymore.

For music, it never should have been one in the first place. Perhaps, amidst all the buy-outs, golden parachutes, and mergers, some people have forgotten that.

Just the opinion of one man.

Moses Avalon

wow...

Dave

Well said, if an artist can make a hundred grand a year from doing what he or she loves, them in they are indeed a success.

Your post is full of endless statements about what the old-timers are thinking & feeling. I wouldn't mind seeing some actual evidence as to what they are thinking... written or verbal statements, posts, something to which you can point us.

As it stands, your post is all about what you are thinking and feeling but is guesswork as to what others may be thinking.

The text is from a newsletter I subscribe to. I posted it here as I thought it may be of interest to the turtlerock community. I'm sure if you emailed Moses (www.mosesavalon.com) he would be more than happy to illuminate a little more. After all, he is writing it from his personal experience.

The quote marks from the article end after the second paragraph. The rest appears to be attributable to you.

Moses Avalon.....
http://cdbaby.org/stories/03/09/24/0052575.html

Yes, I had seen those.

Moses's book "Million Dollar Mistakes" is a great read and I believe it to be true as there are some stories in there that I have first or second hand knowledge of and know to be true (although some sales figures are bloated) particularly in relation to a band called Black Lab and in relation to Meredith Brooks (the singer, not the mastering engineer). I'm not suggesting it's all un-embellished truth though.

But anyways.... it's an interesting read nonetheless.

The industry is changing and sales have declined big studios are closing down cause no one can or wants to pay money for an album. No one wants to pay for music since broadband internet has become the norm. Copy protection just does not work at all.

Clever marketing is where its at these days, i guess. It used to be a given that once an artist is famous the cash just started rolling in from every album, people used to cue at record stores just to be the first to get the latest album. Artists will have to do more to keep attention on themselves and keep thier young fans ritalin charged little minds focus on buying all thier releases and merchandise. Staying in the media is where its at no matter how they do it.

Adapting to a new environment can be difficult as only the smartest will survive.

"Adapting to a new environment can be difficult as only the smartest will survive."

An interesting statement and most likely true, as common experience for most people would confirm. I had the feeling from what Kris wrote that he was implying - and I'm sorry if I am interpreting this incorrectly - that young up-and-coming artists automatically understand the new environment and are/will profit from it.

If this is so, does it mean that all younger artists are, ipso facto, the smartest? And do we think that it is always the smartest who survive? Do we know people who survive and prosper on rat cunning? Cheating? Survive despite themselves?

I have been around long enough to see very talented people get ignored under whatever regime was applying at the time.

i ve have been around a while now myself and to "generalise" about the music business my feeling is
the music business has not, was not and will not ever be run by the cleverist business people in the land.
so the oppurtunity to show the big guys how its done is always just around the corner for some enterprising
rocket scientist young or old

i think its very easy to complain about the state of things and pretty hard to make real changes
and while i think the moses avalon statements where probably about right , he like many others in the music business seem to have moved from making records to "teaching" people about making records,
so he has adapted to where the money is for him and i think thats fair enough, seeing i booked a permanent soapbox on the corner for Turtlerock many years ago !.

whats clear to me though is considering i worked in the biggest studios in the land right through the eighties and the nineties and we are 3/4 through this decade i seem to keep keep hearing about how tough it is right now for the big studios and the big labels , but i think that is selective information spread by people who like to hear it that way ,
it has ALWAYS been tough
this is a dumb business to be in if your only return is financial and that is whether your in a band own a studio or even own a record label.

the bottom line is if you understand what your doing, who you doing it for and why your doing it at all

then frankly these are the good old days

The good old days............. but even better!

[quote="rick"] ,
it has ALWAYS been tough
this is a dumb business to be in if your only return is financial and that is whether your in a band own a studio or even own a record label.
[/quote]

I doubt anyone could disagree at all.

Plus...

Bob Ezrin has his own Elk.

How bad can it be?

>"What Ezrin really means is this: the music business that he and others >of his elk understood"

"What Ezrin really means is this: the music business that he and others of his ILK understood"

ILK- noun....family, class or kind.

Perhaps this is how it should read.

t.h.

Perhaps...but I like the idea that he has elk better.

Just think what he could have done, with Pink Floyd for example:

"The Elk"

"A momentary lapse of elk"

"The Division Elk"

Not to forget...

"Dark Side of the Elk" & the lesser known "Piper at the Gates of Elk"

i earnt my weekly pay from a hard earnt job in the 'industry'... my work will be on tv this weekend (first time, yay!)

then last night i went and played at some dodgy run down pub to about 4 people and a couple of kids running around hypo on junk food, and earnt more in 3 hours than i do in 3 days at work...

I couldn't care less, because i think the important point made so far is that you definately have to love what you do to stick it out... while friends are on double and triple the money, i happily get to record, write, play and even have my own car parking space...

life is good..

stop whinging.

No elk as yet tho. :-(

What about

"Wish you were Deer"

"Dark Side of the Moose"

"The Show Musk Go On" (bonus points if you get that one!)

philly wrote:"The Show Musk Go On" (bonus points if you get that one!)

ha ha! That's one of my favorite songs from the Elk, along with "Comfortably elk" and "Waiting for the elk", and, of course, "Run like elk"

Edit - I'm ruining this thread, aren't I?

Careful With Those Antlers Gene....

thats it. im off ta bed!

A search of the iTunes store shows over 200 songs, albums or artists that contain the word "Elk".

Now I'm scared.

" earnt my weekly pay from a hard earnt job in the 'industry'... my work will be on tv this weekend (first time, yay!)

then last night i went and played at some dodgy run down pub to about 4 people and a couple of kids running around hypo on junk food, and earnt more in 3 hours than i do in 3 days at work..."

Martin, I don't understand what you have written. Most pub gigs seem to be particularly poorly paid, yet you are saying that you earned more from that one gig than from 3 days working at your hard earned job.

Does this mean that your hard eared job pays even worse than a pub gig?

Yeah Martin WHAT THA? Your working to hard man! Three days a week! Brain must be fried...

ya both got it wrong :D

my pub gigs pay pretty well because they are good pubs and they are solo and duo gigs (the big ones, at the rocks, northies, tav etc etc)

but they are still stinky, beer-ridden, loud, ear plug-requiring pubs

i work 5 days a week... + 2 days on the weekend at an electronic & auto store plus one or two gigs on the weekend... and i probly earn the same as a trainee accountant hahaa

point is, its all good, and its worth it! had one of the vetran engineers ring me up and ask me how i got suck a good vocal sound on an ad i did recently.. that was a good feeling

Sounds like your living the dream !. Good on you bro I salute you.

rick wrote:the music business has not, was not and will not ever be run by the cleverist business people in the land.

I keep running into music industry 'veterans' whose credentials seem to be something like - I got pissed, smoked, shot up, snorted, slept with X. While I'm sure many enterprising intelligent business people aren't adverse to these types of hedonistic pleasures but I am unsure whether these sorts of credentials really stand industry 'professionals' ingood stead.

Heard an interesting take on the whole brave new digital world from a visual artist. Basically her position was that artists have always found it difficult to profit from their work and all this posturing over how the online / IP driven / long tail business models will make new content creators rich is bollocks. I wonder how many of the great artists (musicians included) of the last few centuries would have died in poverty if they had access to the internet?

Working with a company in Laos this year who operate as a record label but make all their money from advertising revenue - it's a whole other world.