Turtlerock Forum

i think not gentleman...

http://www.enjoythemusic.com/hificritic ... torage.htm

oh - my - goodnes...

audiophile?..........audiofool.

Shit, now i need to replace all my harddrives. Do Neve make one?

Wow.

Makes you wonder how much bull like this is out there.

Loads.

I've seen a fair bit of it in here

Kurt wrote:I've seen a fair bit of it in here

I'll call that total BS.
Care to elaborate?

i let that one straight through to the keeper chris...

Couldn't let that one through..... got up my goat!!!
I'm happy to be the keeper this time: this forum is, and always has been BS free (until THAT post)
Such a sad "comment" really, and far removed from reality.
TRock and its 99.9% of members here rock!

This forum would have one of the lowest rates of BS going I reckon.

I agree with you Nick, but no forum is immune...
I thought the winky smiley was generally a pretty clear indicator of it being a smartarse or tongue in cheek comment.

Pretty sure everything I've ever said has got up Chris' nose

Wrong again Kurt - You have lots of input here and I’m sure most is OK - but please don’t come on the forum and bag the members out, or their input.

Your comment “A fair bit” (of BS) on TRock is so far removed from the truth, and you can’t use a winky or a smiley as an excuse, or hide behind them, nor expect no backlash.
I , and I’m sure others have big respect for this place, and its members (and Rick who pays for us to be, and play here).
Its all not about you mate .... if someone else had bagged out this forum and its members input, then they should expect to be responded to.
That's all - simple.

gigpiglet wrote:i think not gentleman...

http://www.enjoythemusic.com/hificritic ... torage.htm

I and plenty of people I know have witnessed effects similar to this and we've even done some DBT on various
weird digital related artifacts.

The bottom line - if there is actually an artifact, it's all related to either:

a/ Jitter b/ Power supply noise c/ ground contamination noise d/ CD player servo activity induced noise.

In some cases audiophiles(fools?) do in fact fool themselves in many cases they don't and there are subtle artifacts
caused by all these clocking related issues.

The biggest challenge is they are very difficult to measure as the levels of jitter can get to pico seconds and same
goes for power supply or ground related noise.

The bottom line for audiophiles - and they are slowly learning this - is for the lowest jitter / best replay there are
some basic rules:

a/ Use an Asynchronous USB interface that allows (2) fixed freq clocks in the DAC. Jitter matters at the DAC.
b/ Make sure the USB interface is ground isolated.
c/ Make sure the audio clock is on the DAC / isolated side of the interface
d/ Make sure the digital I2S stream is reclocked on the DAC (isolated) side of the interface.

Also as a general note, the problem with most hi end playback systems, as good as they can sound, is they are a
hodge podge of different pieces of equipment with various grounding schemes, digital clocking schemes, usually
unbalanced etc so they frequently fall prey to various interconnection / noise / grounding / jitter issues.

cheers

This Corsair drive (another SSD) conspicuously highlighted vocal sibilants, and had a hard, relentless quality that was impossible to miss. Strangely, it also robbed the music of pace; it was the least engaging on any emotional level thanks to an enveloping tunelessness that appeared to carve up a song like an MP3 rip.

(Emphasis added.)

And that, my friends, is the giveaway.

These mystical properties, "rhythm" and "pace", in the elder days so beloved of Ken Kessler and his cohorts at Hi Fi News and Record Review. Not once did they explain what they meant by those terms, or how the former was an audio property and not a musical one.

audioio wrote:

This Corsair drive (another SSD) conspicuously highlighted vocal sibilants, and had a hard, relentless quality that was impossible to miss. Strangely, it also robbed the music of pace; it was the least engaging on any emotional level thanks to an enveloping tunelessness that appeared to carve up a song like an MP3 rip.

(Emphasis added.)

And that, my friends, is the giveaway.

These mystical properties, "rhythm" and "pace", in the elder days so beloved of Ken Kessler and his cohorts at Hi Fi News and Record Review. Not once did they explain what they meant by those terms, or how the former was an audio property and not a musical one.

I would have thought this was the defining moment:

"Is it really possible that the sound quality of bit-identical audio files' is influenced by their storage medium before being delivered to the hi-fi system's DAC?"

The answer to that is... No. Not unless it is broken.

Sammas wrote:

audioio wrote:

This Corsair drive (another SSD) conspicuously highlighted vocal sibilants, and had a hard, relentless quality that was impossible to miss. Strangely, it also robbed the music of pace; it was the least engaging on any emotional level thanks to an enveloping tunelessness that appeared to carve up a song like an MP3 rip.

(Emphasis added.)

And that, my friends, is the giveaway.

These mystical properties, "rhythm" and "pace", in the elder days so beloved of Ken Kessler and his cohorts at Hi Fi News and Record Review. Not once did they explain what they meant by those terms, or how the former was an audio property and not a musical one.

I would have thought this was the defining moment:

"Is it really possible that the sound quality of bit-identical audio files' is influenced by their storage medium before being delivered to the hi-fi system's DAC?"

The answer to that is... No. Not unless it is broken.

It depends how they are delivered to the DAC - read my post above. If it's a USB I/Face, real time playback,
there are plenty of possibilities for sonic differences.

If it's burned on to CD with the same burner - nope!

zenelectro wrote:

Sammas wrote:

audioio wrote:

This Corsair drive (another SSD) conspicuously highlighted vocal sibilants, and had a hard, relentless quality that was impossible to miss. Strangely, it also robbed the music of pace; it was the least engaging on any emotional level thanks to an enveloping tunelessness that appeared to carve up a song like an MP3 rip.

(Emphasis added.)

And that, my friends, is the giveaway.

These mystical properties, "rhythm" and "pace", in the elder days so beloved of Ken Kessler and his cohorts at Hi Fi News and Record Review. Not once did they explain what they meant by those terms, or how the former was an audio property and not a musical one.

I would have thought this was the defining moment:

"Is it really possible that the sound quality of bit-identical audio files' is influenced by their storage medium before being delivered to the hi-fi system's DAC?"

The answer to that is... No. Not unless it is broken.

It depends how they are delivered to the DAC - read my post above. If it's a USB I/Face, real time playback,
there are plenty of possibilities for sonic differences.

If it's burned on to CD with the same burner - nope!

"Is it really possible that the sound quality of bit-identical audio files' is influenced by their storage medium before being delivered to the hi-fi system's DAC?"

These guys are idiots, Terry.

Sammas wrote:

zenelectro wrote:

Sammas wrote:

audioio wrote:

This Corsair drive (another SSD) conspicuously highlighted vocal sibilants, and had a hard, relentless quality that was impossible to miss. Strangely, it also robbed the music of pace; it was the least engaging on any emotional level thanks to an enveloping tunelessness that appeared to carve up a song like an MP3 rip.

(Emphasis added.)

And that, my friends, is the giveaway.

These mystical properties, "rhythm" and "pace", in the elder days so beloved of Ken Kessler and his cohorts at Hi Fi News and Record Review. Not once did they explain what they meant by those terms, or how the former was an audio property and not a musical one.

I would have thought this was the defining moment:

"Is it really possible that the sound quality of bit-identical audio files' is influenced by their storage medium before being delivered to the hi-fi system's DAC?"

The answer to that is... No. Not unless it is broken.

It depends how they are delivered to the DAC - read my post above. If it's a USB I/Face, real time playback,
there are plenty of possibilities for sonic differences.

If it's burned on to CD with the same burner - nope!

"Is it really possible that the sound quality of bit-identical audio files' is influenced by their storage medium before being delivered to the hi-fi system's DAC?"

These guys are idiots, Terry.

Nathan,

I have had plenty of hi end clients over the years. Some know very well what they are doing sonically, some have
very good technical chops, and yes, others are just idiots or maybe just sheep.

I've heard some systems that were amazing, some that were rubbish... and everything in between.
These days I don't get too involved, they can be very demanding to do work for at times.
FWIW, lots of cutting edge Pro Audio design follows hi end - and obviously the reverse is also true.

The problem with most (home) audiophiles is they lack a scientific approach to things and often loose grasp of the
hierarchy of importance of things in their system.

Looks like they are feeding the HDD's via ethernet > Naim NDX streamer > Spdif > Purcell Upsampler > Dcs DAC.
This is a very expensive complex system that has one major flaw - the spdif connection, they should get rid of it.
Any PS / HDD / gnd noise coupled through to the Naim NDX could well end up as jitter in the spdif stream and
then that has to be dealt with by the receiving device (Dcs upsampler)

I would use a streamer with (Dop compatible) USB OP > VHQ USB IP DAC with isolated, re clocked DAC.

No more differences - better audio quality - much cheaper.