Turtlerock Forum

Hi everyone I have another friend building a studio at the moment and he is searching for a desk.
I've had great luck buying consoles through the forum so far thanks to rick and everyone here. I haven't had time to see what's around at the moment so if anyone has a lead could you please let me know. We are looking for 24 to 32 channels mainly for rock band tracking. I'm not sure what the budget is yet but we are open to see what's about. Thanks guys this forum rocks.

of course everything depends on budget
but if i was buying a smallish console at the moment - i wouldnt go past API the BOX
the price has come way down
the board is extrememly functional
and fits (what i think) is an EXCELLENT place in the not massive desk market
with the ability to customise to some extent through the 500 slots too... i think its a massive win

Good to see The Box has come down a couple of grand US.. I looked at that option, but concluded that you get too little for the money. It's API, I know, but still...
But for you friend Lee, to track rock bands, something like a Chilton or maybe some sort of a Calrec for a few grand wouldn't be a bad option.
There's a couple of Tofts on Ebay at the moment, but I thought they were a bit overpriced, if I remember correctly.
Looks like Mixmasters have a few consoles at the moment...not sure how you'll like the pricing.
THere was also a TL Audio console on ebay a few weeks ago, not sure if it went or not...
But yeah, budget is the word.....

well yeah... there are some good options that give you MORE
neve 5088
API 1608 (with expander for 32ch)
SSL AWS900

but they are all a LOT MORE money
and still fall short in some places..
i looked at all three before i bought my neve..

but oh yes - budget!
there was a calrec going cheap recently.. i cant remember where though.. ill try look it up again
DDA (yes i owned one, and you get a lot of console for your money)
i personally wouldnt go for a toft.. there are too many things that are just not right on them (we had one at GPHQ while changing over between the DDA and NEVE)

dont forget cabling too
if you get something that fits with your existing cabling/ patchbays - you could save a lot
if you get something with EDACS on the back and you have to build looms/ patches/ everything from scratch - make sure you put that in your budget.

I bought Gareth's DDA and have literally not even taken it out of the roadcase since he delivered it a couple of years ago. (don't ask)

It's a big desk, 48 channels, and yours for what I paid for it if you're interested.

just to clarify
the DDA that kurt is talking about was not the one in my studio
its a great desk - and you should get in contact with him about it for sure - i bought it (literally) for the PSUs that came with it. its a long story that im happy to explain over email if required
kurts desk still of course has a PSU (just not the redundant pair that i wanted!)
its a Q2, and aimed slightly more toward theatre/ broadcast but absolutely no reason it wouldnt work in a studio.
if hes selling it for what he paid me - then its a bargain!

the DDA from my studio was a DMR12, which now lives with another user on this board at the university of hobart in tropical tasmania..

...... Shameless plug for my DM-4800 if a digital console (and a whole lot more) is a contender....

gigpiglet wrote:well yeah... there are some good options that give you MORE
neve 5088
API 1608 (with expander for 32ch)
SSL AWS900

but they are all a LOT MORE money
and still fall short in some places..
i looked at all three before i bought my neve..

I went for an SSL X-desk/panda combo, which has one aux less than The Box, but has 40+ inputs on mix. Sure, no pres or EQ (the box has 2), but for about 12-13 grand leftover you can sort that out externally, like for instance that 16ch Raindirk rack, Rick has for sale. So for under 10K you have a world class tracking/mixing solution, minus the stereo comp in The Box. The only feature being non-worlod class would be the number of cue/aux sends (1 stereo and 2 mono), but the can mixes can be done from the interface soft mixer anyway.
But that's all after realizing I'm not able to afford a commercial space for now, staying put in the garage for the time being and, naturally, not enough room for a bigger desk. (had to sell the 28ch Sapphyre, which was a nice sounding desk too).
If the guy in question has enough room, he'd probably want a full, larger format mixer...?
I agree with cabling comment, great point.It can gret expensive pretty quickly. I had to hook everything up to the SSL and patchbay via D-subs, but I made my own costing about $15 per cable (~1m long).
What about that A&H desk with Auto?? GSR m 24 or something..
Anyone used them, any good.? I believe they were about 10K US when new...

BTW: A guy in Perth had a 36 frame Sapphyre (sold off a few modules out of it) at the time I bought mine.. No PSU and he wanted $500. PSUs wouldn't be too hard to track down or even build a new, all in one (they work off 2 separate PSUs originally). FReight might be a bit of an issue, though, if you're on the east coast..

Just in case your friend may consider buying a console from overseas (the U.S. in particular) be extremely careful.

I am currently going through a horror situation with a particular U.S. gear broker.

Details available via PM.

Thanks for clearing that up, didn't realise it wasn't the same one.

Offer still stands though!

gigpiglet wrote:just to clarify
the DDA that kurt is talking about was not the one in my studio
its a great desk - and you should get in contact with him about it for sure - i bought it (literally) for the PSUs that came with it. its a long story that im happy to explain over email if required
kurts desk still of course has a PSU (just not the redundant pair that i wanted!)
its a Q2, and aimed slightly more toward theatre/ broadcast but absolutely no reason it wouldnt work in a studio.
if hes selling it for what he paid me - then its a bargain!

the DDA from my studio was a DMR12, which now lives with another user on this board at the university of hobart in tropical tasmania..

Lee, Would your friend be interested in buying a studio business complete with lots of equipment (including a large format desk, lots of vintage mics and tons of other interesting accumulations) and on-going clients?
Have him contact me at blackinc@presto.net.au

Al

Senad wrote:I went for an SSL X-Desk/X-Panda combo...

I've definitely considered the SSL X-Desk X-Panda combo for my studio, and actually that A&H system looks pretty great, with decent converters built in to it, yeah?

But I also have the other side of me that wants to hold out for a "real" / vintage (slightly larger format) console..

Current plan on the table is the basis of an old Auditronics "GRANDSON II" (110 series, 8 buss) console that I recently got from the rather lovely Steve Francis up there in Leichhardt, but it came to me sans input modules and sans output cards (these were racked up separately). It's also missing the "motherboards" in the base of the frame (for mounting & interconnection of the modules)... So it's kinda of an empty chassis - just about - but with all the fader modules, output assign modules, and all master & send modules etc - if I wanted to use them again. Plus I have a working PSU and two spares, and some output cards from Damian Lunson's old 532 console, so I could possibly adapt those for the buss outs.. I also already had 10 of the input/EQ modules, and am thus tempted to put it all back together into a working 16 or 24 channel console, with the addition of more of the original 110 input modules, and maybe take the opportunity for adding some DIY/custom upgrades such as improved mix buss, and individual outs on every channel for tracking.. Fair bit of work in it all-in-all, but maybe for around the same kind of money as purchasing an X-Desk (?) I could get the Auditronics console back to something like it's original state of functionality, or maybe even better, with some careful planning and hard work?

Seeing as it's on the same kind of theme / topic, I thought it would be great to get any thoughts from you guys on which is the better route here.. doing up the Auditronics vs. getting something new/ready-to-go, like the SSL X-Desk (with potential to add X-Panda, too).

I mean, I obviously get what are the pro's and con's to some extent, but what would you guys choose, is my question?
Considering I have a mid sized studio space, with separate control and recording rooms, but not oodles of space..

Been thinking a fair bit on this question of late, so was very interested to read through the above discussion and points.. I hope it's "on topic" enough to warrant this post being here! If not, just say so and of course I can remove from here and move it to a new thread.

THANKS!

I can only see benefits to the OP (and many others) in talking about consoles in this thread, as that'll possibly give him (his mate) ideas and maybe open their thinking to some other avenues they might not have considered. I know I loved every post about different options when I was looking for a desk a while back.

I can't compare the X-desk/panda to the Auditronics, as I've never worked on an Auditronics console itself, but I do have here a pair of modules from the same guy you bought your frame from, racked up by Rob that I haven't really used, but only tried out briefly.
They have the output cards as well, and I think they sound pretty good. I probably wouldn't be able to get my money back that they owe me, but I'm pretty sure they'll come in handy most of the time.
I was wanting a bigger desk at the start of my search as well, (around 10k budget) but quickly realized that nothing special could be had for that sort of money, so I settled for a S'craft Sapphyre. It was a very good sounding desk and very flexible, with a full p/bay etc, but after I realized I wasn't going to get an adequate space any time soon, I had to move it. I did a few mixes on it (it took some time to fix it up first) and it sounded very good...well sounded great for the money.

Then an X-panda showed up on ebay very cheap and I grabbed it. I knew I could use it on its own in the meantime, (with a separate little mixer that had a few stereo inputs and a master section), until I get the x-desk, which i did soon after. Well, this mixdown setup sounds fantastic. I always had an impression that SSL sound was of a clean and thinner variety..well this is kind of clean, but not thin for sure..It sounds full, balanced, punchy, defined and pretty bloody WIDE. Also, the headroom is plentiful . OK, I must admit my mic locker and preamp selection has grown somewhat lately, and this contributes to the improvement in quality, but the SSL sure sounds much better than the ITB summing.
So to answer your question: I can't see how you can beat this sort of a setup for sound, flexibility AND reliability for around $4-4.5K.
Fair enough if you need a desk that'll pull in outside engineers, labels etc.. (which i was after, before I realized the new place isn't happening) then something like this wouldn't work, but if it's mainly going to be you working in there in a home/project type arrangement + with limited space, this thing is it IMO.
Another thing is: no matter what console you get, unless it's full of 10 or 80 series neve modules, you will want additional outboard, won't you? We all do LOL. That is another reason this mix set-up is really good.
There's nothing on this desk (X-desk+x-panda) that is an extra that I won't use, and that's what I love about it. Everything is used!! I'd love to have an extra couple of aux sends, but I can live without them.
I think I've found the right setup for some time to come**

Hope this helps you Evan, and also the OP in their decision making process.

** I've just spent about 45 minutes looking at used consoles on US brokers' sites LOL!

There's a great condition Midas F32 with flight case on Ebay ATM.

Senad wrote:I can only see benefits to the OP (and many others) in talking about consoles in this thread..

Thanks Senad for the insightful comparison between using larger older consoles vs. SSL X-setup. If I can ask one more question on that, how many channels do you sum down to when using your X-Desk/X-Panda rig? - Just as many as you have faders, or do you also use the secondary line inputs on the channels to get to a higher track count?

Be interested to hear how you go with configuring channels with fader control vs other inputs. Cheers

Evan, I only have 16 channels of D/A conversion at the moment (2 X Rosetta 800), so that determines my analog summed track count. The plan is to get another Rosetta 800 for the total of 24 channels, which is also the total number of faders I have (16 mono and 4 stereo)
I can't see myself needing many more than that in the future.
My mic pres are directly tied to the Line ins of the X-desk and X-panda. 16 DAW outs are half normalled to the 16 ALT ins of the x-desk+x-panda. 16 inserts and outboard gear are on the patchbay.
Usually, my mono channels coming out of the DAW are: kick, snare, bass, vox, single guitars.
Stereo stems would have OHs and the rest of the drums, BG vox, any reverb from the DAW, synths...
SO the 8 faders on the x-desk are usually the mono stuff, and the x-panda's 8 faders are usually the stereo stems.
There are also 2 stereo returns (from 2 mono sends) which is just enough for a couple of outboard fx units.
The 4 stereo faders, left over on the x-panda, will be really useful for some more stems out of DAW and, perhaps, some parallel processing..
Should I ever have even more channels of D/A, there is also the option of using both line and ALT ins for DAW returns, choosing the ALT as the source on the CUE sends and hitting the CUE to MIX button for another 16 channels with volume and pan control!
The only downside to this little "console" are the faders, which are of very basic quality and feel pretty crap.
Sounds great, though

I bought Gareth's old DDA - it's great. Just finished (45 minutes ago) tracking an EP through it. With some fairly stellar outboard pres to choose from the DDA held its own and beat out everything for some drums stuff.

The big thing it has going for it from my perspective is the modules are easy(ish) to work on and don't use (much) unobtanium. I also picked up a D&R 24 channel which has a very similar signal path with clean, clearly laid out boards and socketed ic's.

This means that, for example, when lightning hit our building and fried a bunch of stuff including the master channel the fix was a relatively straightforward and easy job (so long as you read the schematic right first time, which I didn't).

I believe Magoo has a heavily modified TAC from the same kind of era up for sale with a p/t rig over on the facebook. I'd be looking at that pretty hard if I were in Lee's friends shoes.

i was going to mention the TAC
it looks like a great board.
but i didnt put it in the thread as its only 16ch
and the original post was looking for 24-32

my DDA had some good mods, and certainly stood up to "better' consoles byt the end..
its definitely a path you can go down for something more affordable.

but so are the new options being discussed (x-desks etc)

i was VERY close to an AWS900 (not plus, and hence cheap) before the neve i bought came up.
the idea of a new maintenence free, easy box to deal with is pretty alluring
but then so is the big, heavy, beautiful, hard work one!

depends on your needs

i would say for mixing though, in my opinion, i want 24, if not 32ch.
anything less than that, and id just as soon do it in the box, as id be half doing it there anyway.
that was one of the reasons i was looking at the AWS over the 1608 and similar... 24 faders (plus some other inputs) makes it work in my brain/ workflow. 16 just doesnt.

Thanks everyone for the input. I turned around for a minute and he has purchased a soundcraft mh4 desk for a great price before He even had the chance to even consider his options.
Has anyone used this desk and have a thought on them for recording?

used them plenty live
i really really like them
the EQ is nice
i doubt the pre will be amazing in a studio setting, but im sure you have options.
loads of routing/ flexibility (cause of its live/ theatre background)

since you got a good price on it - then im sure it will a a great solution.

new enough to that maintenence shouldnt be an issue (and the soundcrafts are pretty easy to work on should you need to) i learnt my soldering/ maintenence skills in a PA factory on the old soundcrafts... good times.

Thanks Gareth, We have external pre's if need be. I guess we will make the best of it. Cheers guys.