Turtlerock Forum

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uqm1gqwz-Ys

just unbelievable


Vintage Kings new showroom in LA.

Man.....oh man...

makes you wonder as a business model, how it could possibly succeed.

sells coke...starts vintage king front....
pretty easy explanation?

Being located in a global music capital, of which there are very few left.
Building up a good reputation over more than ten years.
Sourcing almost impossible to find pieces.
Having a global presence, especially via the net.

Because of the small customer base and distances involved, no Aussie dealer could match this.
Same for the UK really, although the distances are less.

The insurance on the building must be astronomical!

That mic booth cabling is pretty messy..

i am assuming the manufacturers would also seed their equipment into the room.

curious footnote
every single piece of equipment i saw besides the scully cutting lathe was new ..
not vintage

I noticed that too but 'Retail King' doesn't sound as cool.
I like the eyepiece on the lathe. Watching music oldskool.

interesting that they use a toft ATB to monitor all those mics and preamps....

cant charge too much money without the V word in the website name either can you?

I'm in LA this week. Might saunter over and check 'em out.

jkhuri44 wrote:cant charge too much money without the V word in the website name either can you?

...........sort of in the same marketing vein as "gourmet sandwich"

To be fair, VK is one of the few places you could have sourced a Helios or EMI console over the last few years....... if you had the money.

I'm sure Rick could have found you one..

Any Helios consoles in Oz?
I once bought a nice Helios compressor from a guy in Sydney.

About 10 years ago 16 AD& R comps (which where the same as those in the helios consoles) went on sale here in Oz for a good price. I knew I should have got them when I had the chance but with a young family there where other priorities.

rick wrote:curious footnote
every single piece of equipment i saw besides the scully cutting lathe was new ..
not vintage ...

Spent a couple of hours there yesterday, checking out the setup, comparing a few items and listening to monitors that I've never heard in the same room before.

According to Jeff (Ehrinsburg) they plan to have a tasty selection of all the iconic vintage pieces (mics and rack gear) alongside the newer stuff that was featured in the youtube clip.

Even without that, the setup is very very cool and useful. It can only get better with the addition of the vintage stuff!

DarkSky wrote:

rick wrote:curious footnote
every single piece of equipment i saw besides the scully cutting lathe was new ..
not vintage ...

Spent a couple of hours there yesterday, checking out the setup, comparing a few items and listening to monitors that I've never heard in the same room before.

According the Jeff (Ehrinsburg) they plan to have a tasty selection of all the iconic vintage pieces (mics and rack gear) alongside the newer stuff that was featured in the youtube clip.

Even without that, the setup is very very cool and useful. It can only get better with the addition of the vintage stuff!

I think it would be really interesting, to listen to all those different monitors....in the same room.

Wiz wrote:I think it would be really interesting, to listen to all those different monitors....in the same room.

Hi Peter,

Yes very interesting, actually.

I was more than a little surprised to hear a significant difference between the K+H and ATC flagship monitors they had set up. Given the similar design philosophies of the two, and in light of previous experiences and others' reports, I expected to hear more similarities than differences - and I expected to find a slightly more detailed image coming from the ATCs.

My expectations were not met at all. I found the two sets of monitors quite a bit less alike than I'd supposed, and found I had a clear, immediate and unmistakeable preference for the K+H pair, which offered up the sound in the stark detail and clarity that I look for in monitors. By contrast, the ATCs sounded glossy and polished in a way that might be a delight for recreational listening (and would doubtless be a great way to represent material to clients) but less useful as an analytical tool.

This was one of several surprises of m visit, that left me feeling that I was taking away some real and useful data from my brief visit. I wish there was a facility like that in the hemisphere I happen to spend most of my time in!

Hey Ray,

Did you get to have a listen to the Focal Twin 6's? Have had a listen to the solo6 be's and like what I heard but it was in a pretty crappy environment so don't want to make a judgement based soley on that if investing in some of that similar range later on...

Is it just me or would it have been better for linearity to keep the same consoles in the pre/eq/compressor room when demoing material so that they all would play back via the same circuitry? Or is it all patchable?

Fair annoyed this wasn't open when i was there 2 months ago...

cheers

dave01.cooper wrote:Hey Ray,

Did you get to have a listen to the Focal Twin 6's? Have had a listen to the solo6 be's and like what I heard but it was in a pretty crappy environment so don't want to make a judgement based soley on that if investing in some of that similar range later on...

Is it just me or would it have been better for linearity to keep the same consoles in the pre/eq/compressor room when demoing material so that they all would play back via the same circuitry? Or is it all patchable?

Fair annoyed this wasn't open when i was there 2 months ago...

cheers

Hi Dave,

I'm afraid I didn't audition the focals, sorry.

Meanwhile, the facility is so new that they were still literally putting the labels onto the patchbays while I was there. We had to wait a few mins in the mic booth until the labels had gone onto the mic pre bay before we could route the signal from a couple of mics we auditioned. But AFAICT, it's set up so everything is patchable to everything else. They have different consoles normalled to particular racks, but that should not stop anyone requesting like-for-like comparisons of anything in the room...

Bummer about the timing for your trip. It was pure luck that it opened the day I happened to land there and I was able to get an appointment the next day. Very cool!

it's set up so everything is patchable to everything else. They have different consoles normalled to particular racks, but that should not stop anyone requesting like-for-like comparisons of anything in the room...

That's good. I would've been very suprised if X or Y mic could only go to the A or B console etc...

Very cool how the sofit's are 'modular' for a better word. new product + jigsaw and bonza = new demo mounted speakers!

Ray - any other gear suprise you/tickle your fancy at all?

cheers

isn't it weird how "high end" monitors that all claim to be flat and accurate sound so different? It makes you wonder which monitor really is flat and accurate. And once it was identified why anyone would want to use anything but that monitor?
I guess we all just like to be flattered at the end of the day!

I guess we all just like to be flattered at the end of the day!

Or preferably..... flattened?

dave01.cooper wrote:

Ray - any other gear suprise you/tickle your fancy at all?

Unsurprisingly, a few items caught my eye. Some very nice mics! Took my Lucas CS-1 in to compare with the Flea and Telefunken C12 recreations, and felt the Lucas was the winner by a couple of lengths (and they're pretty long mics) but the Telefunken U47 and one of the Bock mics (his version of the 251) were very impressive.

I aso checked out the Neve 4081 pre, which they had on top of one of the racks, as I think it could be useful for location recordings, and was very impressed with the form factor. I'll be in LA again in a week or so, and may even go back for another look.

rob wrote:isn't it weird how "high end" monitors that all claim to be flat and accurate sound so different? It makes you wonder which monitor really is flat and accurate. And once it was identified why anyone would want to use anything but that monitor?
I guess we all just like to be flattered at the end of the day!

Hi Rob,

Absolutely - there seem to be a lot of stylistic takes on what constitutes a reference monitor, but no standards.

In the audition I did on Friday, the set of monitors that were (to my ears) the clear winners were the K+H O410. Stunning detail, imaging and clarity with *everything* exposed. But to be fair, I mix on O300Ds with a pair of O800 subs, so arguably my ears are "pre-tuned" for the particular variety of dry flatness that the larger form factor K+H model also delivers.

All in all an extremely interesting exercise, being able to dial them up in sofit mounts in the same room. Still not as revealing as making listening comparisons in one's own mix room would be, but still a revelation!

sn't it weird how "high end" monitors that all claim to be flat and accurate sound so different? It makes you wonder which monitor really is flat and accurate.

Yeah good point Rob.

About 25 to 30 years ago, I did some free air analysis of various pro monitors... none of them were even close to flat. The only speaker I've ever tested that was flat, at least from about 500hz up, was a Quad Electrostatic... in fact it was so flat I thought there something wrong with my analyser.

Most monitor frequency response curves are excessively smoothed... you'd be amazed at what they look like when you sweep them with 1/24th octave analyser with a narrow Q.

DarkSky wrote:

rob wrote:isn't it weird how "high end" monitors that all claim to be flat and accurate sound so different? It makes you wonder which monitor really is flat and accurate. And once it was identified why anyone would want to use anything but that monitor?
I guess we all just like to be flattered at the end of the day!

Hi Rob,

Absolutely - there seem to be a lot of stylistic takes on what constitutes a reference monitor, but no standards.

In the audition I did on Friday, the set of monitors that were (to my ears) the clear winners were the K+H O410. Stunning detail, imaging and clarity with *everything* exposed. But to be fair, I mix on O300Ds with a pair of O800 subs, so arguably my ears are "pre-tuned" for the particular variety of dry flatness that the larger form factor K+H model also delivers.

All in all an extremely interesting exercise, being able to dial them up in sofit mounts in the same room. Still not as revealing as making listening comparisons in one's own mix room would be, but still a revelation!

In a listening test the K+H O410 clarity and detail may not have been an indicator of accuracy, but due to slightly les mid frequency in the speakers response. So the ATC's you where listening to might more accuratley reproduce the recordings. This has got me before when auditioning speakers.
I'm sure there are also many accoustic issues that come into play with sofit mounting all the speakers being compared.

interesting that you mention the quad electrostatic. I've just had one in for repair and have been listening to it now it is repaired. These are so dependent on room placement because of the bipolar pattern, however the whole mid band is very good. My first impression on listening to it was to be very underwhelmed, then further on it occurred to me that it was simply very flat and accurate .... it wasn't flattering!
Still they are very inefficient and struggle to "rock"!

Chris H wrote:

DarkSky wrote:In a listening test the K+H O410 clarity and detail may not have been an indicator of accuracy, but due to slightly les mid frequency in the speakers response. So the ATC's you where listening to might more accuratley reproduce the recordings. This has got me before when auditioning speakers.
I'm sure there are also many accoustic issues that come into play with sofit mounting all the speakers being compared.

In this case, what I was hearing was a subtle but unmistakeable 'halo' (for want of a better term) around a variety of frequencies on the ATCs. Almost as though there was a very short and subtle reverb (or more likely, sympathetic resonance) added - which lifted the sound, smoothed over some of the details and added a bit of glossy euphonia.

By comparison, the K+H pair were resolutely dry and details in various parts of the spectrum - including the mids - were more nakedly and clearly exposed.

One listen/comparison in one room is not enough to make definitive pronouncements, but nevertheless the result was interesting and unexpected.