Appreciate help with sound to picture

[NYMo]

Hi there,

I have a job this week that involves putting audio onto a doco.

The guy says it is *720* (i presume pixels ?) and a frame rate of 50 (and i thought 25 frames was standard)
I am going to do it in monkey tools.

a) Should i ask him for a timecode burnt quicktime file ?

b)Do I just spot the audio in PT to the video timecode ?

c)More importantly...are there any serious gotchas that i need to know ??

Really appreciate some wise words from those that do this sort of thing daily !

Cheers
N
Y
MO

[jkhuri44]

hey john,

not sure where 50 fps came from??

havent done any post for about 2 yrs, but last time i checked the 3 standards were 25fps PAL, 27.9something NTSC, 24fps (motion picture). Im not sure Protools will do a session with 50fps? if you can do it manually, then ....i guess im wrong, but i dunno where 50fps would be used.

a) you shouldnt have to ask for burnt in timecode, it should be in there if the guy knows what he's doin. So, yeah, deffo ask for it

b) Video files should receive burnt in timecode with the picture...but before all that, there should be 1 minute 10 seconds of black...followed by a 10 second counter...then first vision.

As for gotchas.
c) where that 1 minute 10 seconds is in the video, tehre should be pink noise, for calibration...and also 1khz test tone at -20dB fps.
then, at exactly 2 frames before first vision, ie. ZERO timecode, you should have a sine wave that goes exactly 2 frames before first vision directly after that, your timecode should read Zero. So, start ur Pt session at -00.00.01.20 so that first vision occurs at 00:00:00:00 (reason for this is that u can send an audio file when ur completed uve work to ur vision u send this file, and the 2 pip that u've created is the reference for sync to video)

Also make sure your PT session is at 48Khz...that might be common sense, but i'm just checking :P

i think what i said above is right....hopefully Kris can correct me if anything there is incorrect!

[Jason Dirckze]

The 50 relates to 50i (Interlaced) I believe, as opposed to Progressive Scan. Something to do with fields and frames, I'm sure you could Google it for a better answer. Most likely the project will be at a standard 25 Frames if it was shot here, in PAL. When you shoot NTSC it is generally 60i. Might want to double check that though.

Half of my life I spend on the road as a location sound mixer for TV, when I'm not on the road I do post audio, but as far as details go I'm not the guy to ask questions. I just cut shit up, do music edits, tracklay atmos and FX and generally prep audio for the mixer.

What you do need to know is where this project is headed. Is it going to air on TV here? If so then you need to find out the specific broadcasters specs for audio. Different broadcasters/networks have different specs for audio delivery.

If you need anymore help, I'd be glad to ask the mixers at work. We produce documentaries for The Discovery Network, National Geographic etc, as well as local TV networks.

[Jason Dirckze]

Oh, forgot to add, I usually use Grid mode so that when I spot audio it is frame accurate, and yes, spot audio to video TC, if that is what is required.

Are you working in PT HD?

Also forgot to add, we track and mix using PT HD, very quick and easy when you have the PT Keyboard or know all the shortcut key commands.

[Jason Dirckze]

Oh, no disrespect to Jamil, and I could be wrong here, but in my case we never did the pink noise thing, nor the peculiar start timecode thing. The BITC on the quicktime file will indicate what TC your session should start at. Each broadcaster has different specs for this too. For some local TV we start at 00:01:30:00 for example, but for some US broadcasters we start at 01:00:00:00.

As far as pips go, we have a countdown from 10, pips of 1kHz, -20dBVU. Just check what is on the video. You may not need to do anything.

[Jason Dirckze]

Wikipedia has some good info, amongst which is:

"The 1280x720 format is always progressive scan, there is no interlace version of 1280x720. The 1280x720 frame rate in common use are 23.976, 25, 30, 50 and 59.94p or frame/s). In general, traditional PAL and SECAM countries (Europe, Australia, much of Asia, Africa, and parts of South America) are or will be using the 25p and 50p frame rates"

So it seems I was completely wrong about the interlace bit. Looks like your doco was shot in progressive scan, 1280x720/50p.

[NYMo]

Hi there,

Thanx for the tips guys.

Yeah...its going to go on local TV (its a charity thing)

I think he said he needs it output @ 22khz.
I'm on HD.

Living and learning.

Cheers
N
Y
M
O

[Kurt]

Seems bizarre it would be shot in HD720P then have 22k audio? I thought the HD standard called for 24 bit 48k?

[Chinagraf]

Add to that...the 720 may be width as standard dv-pal is 720 x 576, but the pixel width is not square.
Nymo something else to check is the playback format...if it has indeed been shot at 50 frame progressive scan (PS means it takes a whole fram at once instead of 2 interlaced fields) but is going to be played back on normal TV it will have to go through some sort of pull-down to 25 frames, which can cause audio problems if you have worked to a 50 frame master.

It's hard to tell till you get the pics and know exactly what you are working with format wise.

[jkhuri44]

Oh, no disrespect to Jamil, and I could be wrong here, but in my case we never did the pink noise thing, nor the peculiar start timecode thing. The BITC on the quicktime file will indicate what TC your session should start at. Each broadcaster has different specs for this too. For some local TV we start at 00:01:30:00 for example, but for some US broadcasters we start at 01:00:00:00.

As far as pips go, we have a countdown from 10, pips of 1kHz, -20dBVU. Just check what is on the video. You may not need to do anything.

no disrespect at all, i did state i was a bit hazy on this!

and yes, ur right! 1:30 was the number, not 1:20. my bad.

pink noise is optional, it is only used i believe when calibrating machines...not a prob in digi i believe.

[peterc]

I had something similar, where I was told the pic was at 50fps, but the client was really sketchy, so I just waited for it to arrived & work it out......

The shoot & edit had been done using HD pic so the editor software had resolved this as a 50fps pic, but it was really just 25fps pic.

Quicktime Player has a function (Command + I on macs ) that gives some details as to the pic specifics.

Peter

[musikwerks]

Coming a little late to the party but...

"720" is referring to 720p, a video resolution. It does not affect you in the slightest.

"50 frames" is 50i, meaning it will still have a 25fps time base but it's HD (sorta) so when in HD land anything running from PAL time base will be 25pfs or 50i.

It's 50 interlaced fields, 2 fields per frame. 25 frames per second.

If it's for video layback it must be at 48khz. If he thinks 22khz will cut it he is wrong. All professional video decks run at 48khz audio. From HDV all the way to HDCam SR.

You will ideally the DV toolkit if you are not using PT HD. This will give you correct timecode in your session. Trying to do it without will be a PITA. If using LE you do not have delay compensation so be careful which plugs you use.

You must also not exceed -10db. That's TV zero. Get a good clean limiter over your master buss and set it accordingly.

The editor, as a courtesy, should supply you with a dv codec quicktime file WITH burned in time code. You should alwats check as you go along to make sure the BITC matches your session TC.

Use or discard as you see fit.... just some ideas from my experience in post production.