Turtlerock Forum

Ok so, Ive been asked to record a local choir for and audition. "Needed to be done yesterday, cheap as possible, but has to sound fantastic..blah blah blah..."

Anyway, I was just wondering if anyone here has any suggestions for the mic placement? Of the top of my head I was going to use an XY pair of small condensers out the front near the conductor and a large diaphragm condenser(possibly omin config????) hard left and hard right...

thoughts? opinions? experiences please?

First of all, tell them the options are quick, cheap and good, they get to pick 2 - not 3.

Secondly, do they all have to sing together or can it be recorded in vocal ranges (altos together, bass together, etc)?

Assuming its all together, I'd go with three mics - a stereo condensor pair in mid-side is my favourite, and then yes, a room mic (either omni or fig 8).

The benefit of MS over XY in my view is twofold - it does sum nicely to mono, and it allows you to control (and so vary) the soundstage width using the volume control on the side channel. In quieter passages you can narrow the stage, making it seem more intimate, and then widen it out during the louder bits for the hair raising surround sound feel. I use LDCs - for choirs a bit of top end sparkle doesn't usually hurt and so a Rode NT2A and NT1000 work quite well. Depends on the choir, I suppose. Position them in front of the choir and have them form a bit or an arc around the two. Adjust the height of the mic placement to vary the tonal response to want you're after.

The room mic needn't be actually in any centre line. The trick here is actually to find a place in the room that has great accoustics and richness. This mic adds atmosphere and air as much as direct sound, so you actually want a place rich in sound rather than worrying about placement.

If you have a fourth mic you can use, try the Bowie Heroes trick. Position it centre line but back a bit, and the gate it so that it only comes on during the fortissimo bits. Its got a very slightly delayed, open sound that adds depth to the soundstage.

I'd use pencil condensors (assuming they are cardiod or hypercardiod) if you need to pick up one voice or one section in particular.

Anyhoo, good luck. There's many ways to skin this kitten, but the basic principle is a good stereo pair as the foundation and a good room track to add the atmosphere and vibe. Everything else is candy.

There's always just a pair of nice condensers in Blumlein. Get the choir to balance around the mics..

hmmm all sounds great. I did tell them the old " cheap and quick isnt gunna be great, great and cheap isnt gunna be quick and great and quick aint gunna be cheap" they are actually yet to get back to me about actually doing the job so we will see if it happens yet or not anyway!

With the M-S technique I actually dont have a matched pair that I can use....do you reckon this will be a bad thing? I was going to go with a 414 & a NT55 if i used the MS config. My NT 55s are matched so they would be my choice for the XY then the 414 as the room mic and as much as I hate to admit it a B2Pro for the 2nd one.(I actually dont mind the sound of this mic for the right applications!)

I think this one may come down to some experimentation and good old luck!!!!

thanks for the advice.

I have down a few kids choirs and have found the ATM450's to be really quite effective. I think a pair of those was just under $500.

With MS, matched pair is not so critical. Side mic is Fig8,mid mic is omni or cardiod (depends on what you want the mono to sound like). You can mix and match the mics provided the pattern is right. The better tonally matched, the more even the soundstage is across its width, but if the side mic, for example, is less sparkly then you simply get a soundstage with a sparkly centre that tames down as it moves to the two sides - not necessarily a bad thing, if you see what I mean.

There is a great article in an older AT edition where Mike Stavrou miced and mixed a chior - he stepped through setup and mic placement and discussed many aspects of this recording process.
Might be worth looking up and having a read also..
HTH.
Tim..

I did my first choir earlier this year, they were a Japanese womens group who were doing an annual concert and wanted to record it.

It was a bugger of a setup, there was a grand piano in the middle of the auditorium and the ladies all stood in a semi circle around it. I used an MS pair (414 and Rode NT2A) right on front of the choir and then placed 4 spot mics (a pair of NT5's and a pair of omni Sennheiser MD211's) spaced evenly across the ladies as a back up. The MS pair sounded quite nice, but the piano player was VERY loud, the spot mics ended up saving my life.

of course...why didnt i consult the stack of AT's sitting in my bookshelf...but kudos to all your suggestions!!! all info has been taken on board and is currently being processed....

All the suggestions so far are great, but you must consider the room sound as well: if its a crappy room, you want as little of it in the recording as possible. If its bad, I would recommend an ORTF pair, preferably hypercardioids: quick to set up (if you have a protractor or a graduated spacebar), and fairly easy to find the distance sweet spot by moving back & forward, and adjusting height.
As a matter of fact, if the room is good, I would still go for ORTF, with an option of two omni flankers (4050's would be good, but definitely the same kind of mic).
Have fun