Turtlerock Forum

Hi Guys,

I downloaded the demo of the Waves SSL 4000 bundle. Being an amateur I've obviously never used an original SSL 4000 console. But man the G-Channel Strip is fantastic. I've had this kick sound in my head that I've been trying ages to get with different plugins. But this channel strip did it! I used the preset and then tweaked from there. I'm totally stoked with the results. I used it on the bass aswell and the guitars. I was trying to get a lot of energy into this. I'm getting the impact I really like from the Kick and I think the bass is not interfering. I'm liking how the guitar and bass blend too.

Anyways, look like I'll be saving up for the SSL 4000 bundle me thinks. But I thought I'd share my enthusiasm with the fine crew here at TRM Forums with a tribute....to the TRM 5MIN Auction. Put a vocal track down just for you guys. (suffers from sibilance which I'm trying to fix)

Oh, I also bussed the guitar and the bass to an auxillarily channel which had an eq on it pulling down 3-4db from 4K and above and 250 and below about 1-2 db. I automated the bypass of the plugin so that when the chorus starts the EQ is ON to make room for the vocals. I read somewhere that it helps to put stuff backwards without using a fader move.

Of course if something bugs you in it or stands out as wrong, let me know. I'm here to learn!

Long live TRM 5 Min Auctions!

http://www.hollands.com.au/R21Studios/Audio/TRM5MIN.mp3

FYI, this was a 3-4 minute jam me and a friend had. He played the electric kit and I played some very shoddy bass line. A month later or so I started mixing it for a learning experience and re-recorded the bass/guitars. Still pretty shoddy playing. Only really for mixing purposes.

Bass is a $150 (new) Stirling??? Brand. Bass went into the Avalon U5 into the MBOX2 (aww, it just kills it). Guitar was my Strat into amplitube 2.

If you like the waves plugs then you'll go mental over the Duende plugs, they sound way better in my opinion. The waves ones are impressive for a little while until the listening fatigue sets in.

Hi there,

Heath...are the Duende plugs working properly on firewire yet ??
(they are based on the C200 not a 4000 series)

Cheers
N
Y
M
O

Oh really? The duende from ssl? Not a bad price for the hardware dsp too. 16 channels expandable to 32. Looks cool, but I don't have FireWire. Arghhh. MacBook doesn't have it and it's frustrating! Looks like their plugins are only for duende based systems. Not vst. But when I get onto a mac pro system eventually, I think I might look their pci version. But I might have to settle for the waves version for now.

Do you mean the top end causes the listening fatigue? I also think I'm beginnng to understand what people Are talking about when it comes to the correct mic for the singer. I don't think the one I used is suitable for my voice. It sounds too scooped and ita got that ugly sibelence.

I was suprised I was able to get it to separate from the rest of the song.

NYMo wrote:Hi there,

Heath...are the Duende plugs working properly on firewire yet ??
(they are based on the C200 not a 4000 series)

Cheers
N
Y
M
O

I don't own one but I've heard a lot of comparisons between the 2 and the duende just sounds smoother and more natural to me. Yeah I know they are based on different consoles but the Waves just sounds harsh to me, pretty good for drums but not much else for me.

The Duende at least has the same algorithms as the C200, which is pretty cool.

DwaneHollands wrote:Oh really? The duende from ssl? Not a bad price for the hardware dsp too. 16 channels expandable to 32. Looks cool, but I don't have FireWire. Arghhh. MacBook doesn't have it and it's frustrating! Looks like their plugins are only for duende based systems. Not vst. But when I get onto a mac pro system eventually, I think I might look their pci version. But I might have to settle for the waves version for now.

Do you mean the top end causes the listening fatigue? I also think I'm beginnng to understand what people Are talking about when it comes to the correct mic for the singer. I don't think the one I used is suitable for my voice. It sounds too scooped and ita got that ugly sibelence.

I was suprised I was able to get it to separate from the rest of the song.

Nah just fatigue in general, the waves ssl seems to make it worse for me though, they just sound harsh and grainy. I find the more I fiddle with them in a mix the worse things start sounding. I really like the idea of them but....... they just don't sound right to me. I always get more mileage out of just 2 pairs of analog eq modules.

The Duende just sounds a bit more right to me, if that's a description. :)

Still the 4000 emulations can pull a decent mix when used properly. They are very easy to pick in a song though, listen to a lot of demo songs and you'll hear them all through them, you'll start thinking to yourself "hey I wonder if they used the Waves ssl bundle on that track"? 99% of the time they will have. They stick out like dogs ....s. Hmmm I still hav'nt worked out if that's a good thing or not.

funny you should say about the only good for drums. Yeah it's true I couldn't get it to do anything good for vocals. I used it on kick snare oh's guitars and bass. But drums was by far the most improved. I also used the bus compressor on the final out. I did find it glued everything nicely together. oh and it's the only time the rendered final stereo sounded better than the multitrack playback.

Hey Heath,

have you tried the 4K plugins from universal audio? Just wondering what you think about their quality?

DwaneHollands wrote:Hey Heath,

have you tried the 4K plugins from universal audio? Just wondering what you think about their quality?

I know nuzzingk, about those.

I saw SSL have released the 4000 modules for the xrack and minx series though. Pretty bloody cheap too, though i was'nt super impressed with the sound of the x modules when I got to test them, maybe the 4000's are better I dunno.

Just a quick thumbs up for the SSL 4000 Collection. Yes it's great on drums but I've had stunning results on strings, piano and vocals also. The G-Channel does have a tendency to sound a little grainy yes, but it's supposed to also. The E-Channel however is smoother less obvious in comparison. Some broad subtractive EQ really took out the mud from strings a while ago with ease and a little sparkle at the same time to make 'em shine. Some of the presets are a little quirky, but I really rate this Collection highly and have used it a lot. The Buss Compressor is exceptionally good. My next favourite Waves bundle in this regard is the API Collection. Killer. But you will certainly get a lot of use out of the SSL4000. If I were to have just one bundle it would probably be that one. Good mix tools and the buss comp is handy for so many things.

I actually can't stand the sound of that comp. :) The api 2500 emulation is much better in my opinion.

heathen wrote:I actually can't stand the sound of that comp. :) The api 2500 emulation is much better in my opinion.

Fair enough, each to their own ;)

API 2500 is great, no doubt.

Hi there,

Yeah...the guy that sold me my 2500, sold it after auditioning the Waves API bundle !
(Makes me wonder...I haven't heard the Waves bundle yet)

I do have the Waves 4000 bundle and I am pretty happy with that.
Makes it hard to like when you have all those wonderful outboard eq's Heath ;-)

Cheers

N
Y
M
O

heathen wrote:I saw SSL have released the 4000 modules for the xrack and minx series though. Pretty bloody cheap too, though i was'nt super impressed with the sound of the x modules when I got to test them, maybe the 4000's are better I dunno.

Yeah...I dunno. I love the idea of the X-rack, but man it's a lot of dough for just the chassis (2.5K or so). And then I need more i/o to hook it up. And I'd need at least firewire or pci to get enough i/o. Argh. With plugins I can run as many tracks as CPU will let me...blah blah blah....compromise etc...

But I like looking at the X-rack stuff. I couldn't find the 4K modules you were talking about on the solidstatelogic.com site. They were talking about the E-Series Dynamics and EQ and Buss compressor. But is that the same thing yeah?

I've yet to demo those API 2500 series yet. Again, I've got no previous experience with the originals. At the moment for me it's "Does this thing give me the sound I'm searching for quickly". That 4K series at moment has been the first Eureka moment for me. It's made the most change to the kick that I've heard out of any plugin I've used. Like dramatically change the sound of it.

I've watched those demo videos of Universal Audio's 4K plugin and the kick sound they start with is pretty close to what the finished sound they end up with. Yes, the finished kick is tighter and puncher and perhaps a scooped more in the midrange. But the original wasn't that far off. To me it sounded like a little spit and polish.

Maybe the UA 4K are very similar to the Waves 4K, but for me the thing that impressed me was how my kick went from muddy, woofy bottom end with a harsh beater sound to punchy and tight without that harsh beater sound to get it to cut. Mind you I'm using BFD2 drums, so it's not like it's the worst recording in the world either.

Oh, I'm not ranting or defending or anything. I realise that having awesome outboard gear is probably the best option. Vintage German EQ's. lol. Just haven't to date found a plugin that could get close to that sound I was after. Turns out the sound I like is Andy Wallace...lol. Linkin Park Meteora album continues to blow me away. The hi tom sound just before the first verse in "Somewhere I belong". The kick sound! punchy and present while not being penny-beater harsh. The hi-hats that aren't thin or distant sounded but just sound golden and crisp without being clangy sounding!

The guitars - haven't got close to that sound yet. But man they jump out at you! I love the dynamics of those songs. I love the clarity of the guitars, the razor sharp tone and midrange punch. I love how it doesn't just sit back and mush together with the rest of the instruments.

Those songs just sound new every time I listen to them! Maybe a little single minded, but I just think it's so cutting edge.

Ok, this post turned...

Real Fanboi...Real Fast!

Whoops!

I would'nt sell my real 2500 over the waves one that's for sure, but the plugin does react quite similarly to the real thing. The plug just sounds a bit thinner. Yeah I agree Nymo, having my outboard eq's made the ssl bundle irrelevant, but still they are very usable. As Dwayne said they really can get a kick thumping and a snare cracking nicely, usually much easier than a lot of other plugs.

That's what turned me off the xrack too, the price of the chassis, the actual modules are very reasonably priced. Yeah they are 4000E series modules, dunno how they sound though. Yeah it is pretty hard to get great sound with plugs, it can be done but not easilly for me, I just find that a few pieces of good out get me there faster, sometimes I still use plugs after analog processing but I try not too. But yeah for the price though the SSL bundle is'nt bad, one of the first pluging bundles where they really tried to get it right, I think.