Turtlerock Forum

Hey all, just signed up to the board so I thought I'd say hello.

I'm a musician by trade, but have been doing home recordings of various (poor!) quality for about a decade now. I'm currently running a pretty small Logic/Macbook system that I just use to record my own groups and muck around. Recently I've decided to upgrade and get a system that I can use to make some better quality recordings. I'm generally interested in jazz music and improvisation so I'm aiming to get something pretty portable that I can use to record live music in a pretty 'authentic' and true way (although I love mucking around with effects/plug ins/other silly stuff just to see what I can create).
It would be ideal to have a system I could use to record some gigs, and also take the time and set up in a nice sounding room to track something I could actually live with 12 months later.


I'd love your opinions on what you think I should be aiming for to improve my system.

At the moment I've got-

Macbook
Logic 8
Motu 8pre
Focusrite ISA one Digital
Adam's A7

Mic's-
2x 57
1x 58
3x CAD M9
2x CAD Trion
2x AMT LDC
4x AMT Pencils
1x AKG C214



What I would really really like to do is-

Get a new AD/DA unit that I can use both to run other pre's into, and for outputs to use outboard gear on whilst mixing. I'd keep the Motu 8pre for some nice, easy to use utility pre's, and the ISA One as a good single channel pre (and surprisingly reasonable DI as well), but I'd love to be able to keep adding a few other nice pre's as money comes in.

I've been looking at the Motu Traveler and the Echo Audiofire 8/12 units. Anyone have any experience with this or recommend something better? I'm not really that fussed about them having preamps built in, but at the price range I'm looking at that seems pretty common. I'm definitely looking at converter quality rather than DSP/preamps/bells and whistles, and minimum 6 I/O.


I'd also like a stereo compressor of some sort, for use for some extra thickness when recording, and to experiment with as an outboard for mixing. I understand using outboard gear can create a lot more hassles than benefits at the sort of price range I'm talking about, but I'm starting to realise that for me actually being able to physically interact with something lets me find better sounds.
Compressors that have come up that I'm interested in are- FMR RNLA, ART Pro VLAII, Chameleon Labs 7720. Any thoughts?

Price range is a funny thing, but I think it's safe to say somewhere below $1200 for the AD/DA, and below $800 for the compressor.


Obviously I could do with adding a few more mics, but at the moment the mic's are working well for me. A decent range of styles, (dynamics, LDC, ribbons, pencils) and none of them are too bright to my ears (personal pet peeve).


Thanks guys!

There are oh so many ways of skinning this cat, and it really comes down to taste and budget and need/desire.

The MOTU Traveller will be just like your 8pre, and I would avoid it for that reason. You already have stuff that does what it can do.

It you want a stereo compressor that adds flavour, you could do worse that the RNLA - there's a couple on ebay for the $350 at the moment. You need to work out whether the sidechain, HPF and metering of the Chameleon labs is worth the extra money, but there is also the "sound" factor and there's no substitute for actually listening top the unit, unfortunately.

Re converters, if you are keeping your 8pre, do you really need a separate box? At the risk of shameless self-promotion, see the For Sale section for my Swissonic AD24 - $500 gets you 8 channels of ADAT that you can plug straight into your existing 8pre and will serve you well for any future DAW interface (I use it with my Apogee) - it would use the 8pre's optical input I assume you currently use for your Focusright, but you can plug the F/right into the Swissonic and still have 7 extra channels for other preamps or FX returns.

If I had $2k to spend on the stuff you are talking about, I'd look at something like the Swissonic ($500), the RNLA ($350), together with an unmentionable be!@#$%^& ADA8000 (to use solely as as an ADAT DA for 8 extra outputs - its worth its money for that, but the input preamps are rubbish so use Swissonic for AD work) ($350-$400 on ebay). You could then use the extra money to get something for the F/right insert loop - an nice Orban de-esser, or a RNC, or something along those lines. You could also spend some of that $700 on buying some good plugins for LOGIC - I have the T-Racks 670 Compressor and Pultec EQ, as well as a few others, and they are well worth the money. If you have some change left over, build yourself a little DIY DI box like the Bo Hansen or JLM Audio. Cheap as chips and incredibly useful to have in your pocket. That would give you an extra 7 inputs, 8 outputs, stereo bus compression, a nice analog channel strip and some useful digital channel strip plugins.

As I said, there are so many ways of skinning the cat - but the key is getting good gear that will build up over time, rather than stuff you have to sell off in the future. Good luck with it all.

Hi Chris,

Thanks for your reply, it's good to get someone else's opinion. After having a poke around here and some other places, I think I'm going to do two things for the compressor. I'm going to get a relatively cheap RNLA, for a no-nonsense, slightly flavoured buss comp. Then I'm going to put in the energy and build a DIY 1176 clone from Hairball Audio, so I have a better sounding compressor that's capable of a fair bit more colouring for special sources and tracking. If I'm lucky with exchange rates etc, I can probably get both for around $800.

As far as the AD/DA, I'm still unsure. I hear what you are saying about the Traveller, but the issue is the 8pre has two main outs and that's it, so I really am stuck as far as using outboard equipment. I'd rather keep using the Focusrite's own converters at the moment, as I feel they are likely better than anything I can afford. I've found an Echo Audiofire 8 (8 ins and outs with only 2 mic preamps, but no ADAT functions), for pretty cheap (I think less than $400). This seems like a pretty good, no nonsense mid range set of converters, but I'm a little concerned whether my Firewire 400 on the computer will handle two seperate devices throwing a total of 18 channels in.

I do like the idea of separate AD and DA boxes though, as realistically 6-8 channels of DA will keep me going for a long long time, but I'm already outgrowing 8 channels AD.

I was definitely thinking of building a nice DI box too- thinking of boxes I've enjoyed playing through in the past I'd love to build something really warm sounding, and the ones you mentioned looked quite accurate and clean. Any recommendations for something a bit warmer?

Thanks for the help!

I was definitely thinking of building a nice DI box too- thinking of boxes I've enjoyed playing through in the past I'd love to build something really warm sounding, and the ones you mentioned looked quite accurate and clean. Any recommendations for something a bit warmer?

The warmth tends to come from the transformer and gain satge - I'd look at a JLM Audio FET DI Kit http://www.jlmaudio.com/shop/index.php?_a=viewProd&productId=9 with a 1:4 output transformer http://www.jlmaudio.com/shop/index.php?_a=viewProd&productId=26 so that you can run the DI using phantom power from your preamp (I dislike batteries, they always die at inconvenient times). $88 with GST and you also need a box, and LED and an XLR(M).

I'm about to build one of these myself!

Looks good Chris. Let me know how it goes! I've just been reading up a bit more on the Bo Hansen one. Looks good!