Turtlerock Forum

This has probably been covered plenty of times before but I can't find a thread without cost limitation.

Any opinions on a really accurate small nearfield monitors. (nothing bigger the a 4 or 5 inch woofer) Cost is not an issue but space is. After I installed my accoustic treatment, desk and other odds and ends I'm left with not much space at all. I liked the Adam a7x but they are far to big for my room. I need bottom end to be accurate also and my guess is most small sized monitors don't do justice to the lower fq spectrum so something with a matching sub would probably be appropriate.

Any advice/ experience would be greatly appreciated. I'd like to narrow my choices down to about 3 before I go out and audition them.

Focal monitors make some good shit...im sure chris (linear) will attest that . His particular pair in his studio sound, very "real".

I got a pair of Fostex PM0.5s and the matching Fostex 0.5 sub a few weeks ago and these are very good for the money. A bit over 1K for the 3 spkrs and well worth a listen ;-)

I know the hassle of the small room... So the small genelecs are very impressive for a tiny box. Clean and accurate bass. I've a pair of the Focal CMS60 and they sound excellent but I didn't try the CMS50 which are smaller. EMES also make small monitors for small broadcast situations and though I;ve read excellent reviews I haven't had the opportunity to listen to them. Best thing is to hit up a pro audio store with a selection of monitors and try them all out and try them against their larger cousins to judge the accuracy. Report your findings too...

+1 on the CMS. I have a pair of CMS40s. Amazing low end for 4" woofers and very balanced.

Maybe the PMC DB1S-AII or the passive version?

I have the large TB2s+ which I love.

mylesgm wrote:........... EMES also make small monitors for small broadcast situations and though I;ve read excellent reviews I haven't had the opportunity to listen to them.........

edited..
I use the Emes powered speakers often and they are a great little speaker.

Interested in this discussion too.
Accurate low end in a small monitor I think is crucial.
A club producer friend of mine in the UK used to use the smallest genelec's and said the low end was deceiving, aka not a good purchase.
I generally don't trust magazine reviews.

Magazine reviews? or Gearslut reviews?
If I blindly believed them I would have purchased so much crap in my lifetime.....I'll use my ears
As far as really good nearfield monitors - I still go back to my Dynaudio BM6 passives, bottom end is great ,non fatiguing, and they are not too "flash" or "hyped" sounding like most powered speakers.
I never get any problems in mastering, all that is ever needed in mastering is a touch more level and a bit of sparkle or tiny cut/boost to the low end depending on the key of the song, also I never ever get asked to remix anything.
I've stopped checking on headphones and secondary studio monitors - although I have a crappy Sony Ghettoblaster that I love to bits for comparing the real world that the songs generally will be heard in.

And I have had many many other nearfield's at my disposal over the years - including stupidly expensive ones.
Some have impressed me for a while and then not.
I'm sure there are good powered monitors out there these days - but I am still a bit suss on most powered monitors as they always seem to be the ones I get tired of eventually - but these BM6's don't bore me at all.
IME - There's something about really nice passive speakers and a stand alone great sounding amp that you still can't beat.

If the Adams A7x's are too big sounding for your room then I suggest you forget the search for speakers and look for a amazing set of headphones until you can get a bigger room ( I've also owned 3 pairs of Adams and bored of them too!)
And something to consider is rear facing ports instead of forward facing ones for a smaller room.
Your room sounds like it is the problem here and you will never get a set of small speakers to sound like full range ones. Headphones may be your best option to get the low end right.

The Tasmanian wrote:IME - There's something about really nice passive speakers and a stand alone great sounding amp that you still can't beat.

Although..... I would like a pair of powered event Opals for big elecro subby stuff.
But non electro music seems way nicer to mix on passive speakers.
What astounds me also is how different amps sound.

just mix on a massive pair of JBLS for elecbro...most speakers in the smaller range suck bum when u crank em....design faults get exposed when you turn up past 85dB, and u get fuzzing, and all sorts of crap that throw you off.

edit: sorry to derail thread

The idea for me is to get small but accurate speakers because my room wont take loud levels.

Anything under a 5inch driver and you will need headphones for the bottom end - and because of lacking low mids as well, its pretty hard to balance the upper mids - things like bass, electric guitar, kick, lower keyboards sounds etc are almost impossible to get right on anything below a 5inch driver - unless one is swapping back and forth with headphones.
And that gets really tedious as your mixing instincts are continually under question - its a tiring way to operate.
IME its better to have a larger speaker turned down than a little bugger trying to be fat in the low end.

thanks for all the replies.

ChrisW wrote:Interested in this discussion too.
Accurate low end in a small monitor I think is crucial.
A club producer friend of mine in the UK used to use the smallest genelec's and said the low end was deceiving, aka not a good purchase.
I generally don't trust magazine reviews.

Genies where what first came to mind when thinking of big sound in a small package but ive never been a fan of their sound, too colored, brittle even.

anguswoodhead wrote:How about the new Neumann monitors (K&H).
They are compact and get a good review. 5.25" woofer

http://www.neumann-kh-line.com/neumann-kh/home_en.nsf/root/prof-monitoring_studio-monitors_nearfield-monitors_KH120A#

these look amazing Angus, i had a quick trawl on the internet and cant find a place that stocks them in melbourne and im definatly not buying a pair of monitors without being able to audition them first (thats more of a gs forum thing to do )...does anyone know of a place in melbourne?

The Tasmanian wrote:Magazine reviews? or Gearslut reviews?
If the Adams A7x's are too big sounding for your room then I suggest you forget the search for speakers and look for a amazing set of headphones until you can get a bigger room ( I've also owned 3 pairs of Adams and bored of them too!)
And something to consider is rear facing ports instead of forward facing ones for a smaller room.
Your room sounds like it is the problem here and you will never get a set of small speakers to sound like full range ones. Headphones may be your best option to get the low end right.

Im not really looking for a pair of passives although i am partial to a pair of dyns. However if i was going to go for the size of a 6a id probably just go with the adams. I like their sound and they got a great write up on SOS, whose reviews i definitely trust.

Chris in your experience what particularly about them made them fatiguing with prolonged use? How would you rank them with some of the other monitors you have used (besides dyns)?


....after all this i think i have managed to arrange the room so that i can fit a pair of larger speakers in with adequate distance and spacing. ive narrowed it down to the a7xs, the dyn bm6as or a pair of focals which i havent looked into in much detail yet.

I think you are on the right track with the ones you are looking into - the size of them is fine
Some people want little drivers to sound big and as I said if you have a small room you are better off turning the monitors down rather than shrinking the driver size beyond 5 inch (6 is better)
I would get the 3 you are looking into them side by side in a music store and play lots of mixes/albums that you really like.
As far as the Adams A7x - I just found that the ribbon tweeter did not do it for me after a while - (lacking in the midrange? and maybe the stereo image was not as great as I wanted) and I was convinced at first that I would dig them for a long time.So I bought 2 pairs for the tracking room and the mix room
But I was recording and mixing 7 days a week at that stage so it is easy to get sick of speakers and their weakness becomes obvious fairly soon - especially as I had a 4 speaker selector on the Neve and could check mixes on quite a few monitors and I was continually hearing the differences in tweeters/stereo image etc.
After all of these speakers I have been through I now think soft dome tweeters are the most accurate tweeter design as long as they are not surrounded by a metal or plastic "horn" aka Genelecs - I'm the same as you with Genelecs - they always seem a touch brittle (although I've done some great mixes on them)
Good luck - at least you are not getting puny little things and expecting them to be accurate to mix on.
Let us all know how you go with your investigations and purchase

OH ANGUS!
Why do continually parrot stuff off the internet? - we can all use a search engine!
Its not Gearslutz where all the amateur parrots lurk and spin other peoples experiences like they are their own experiences.
Do you have any knowledge and real world experience to share with us?...... Then please do!
Most of us here are professionals mate in case you never noticed.
Like 99.9% of the people here - if we dont know something we ask or listen and learn - not google and parrot reviews.
With respect mate - please get some of your own experience so you have something valid to add - its SOOO boring, amateur and excruciatingly painful.
AMEN!

im sure george likes those speakers from the goodness of his heart

Get an opinion!

Or at least get some experience so you can add YOUR opinion
I aint hurtin mate - I'm just very tired of your continual sales talk after all these years

All I expect is someone giving an opinion about a product from experience - is that too much to ask?
So Angus - please let us all know what you like about these monitors?
And what monitors did you mix these tracks on?

The Tasmanian wrote:OH ANGUS!
Why do continually parrot stuff off the internet? - we can all use a search engine!
Its not Gearslutz where all the amateur parrots lurk and spin other peoples experiences like they are their own experiences.
Do you have any knowledge and real world experience to share with us?...... Then please do!
Most of us here are professionals mate in case you never noticed.
Like 99.9% of the people here - if we dont know something we ask or listen and learn - not google and parrot reviews.
With respect mate - please get some of your own experience so you have something valid to add - its SOOO boring, amateur and excruciatingly painful.
AMEN!

amen to that!

here's my 2c.

get a pair of monitors that don't give you a headache, and stick with them. listen to everything on them, learn how they translate in the real world and avoid swapping willynilly to the latest fad.

i really like focals, i've got a pair of twin6's. but i've heard solo 6's and they've got a similar aural fingerprint (ie same drivers/amps without the second speaker acting like a sub)

be wary of speakers that impress off-the-bat. that's why auditioning speakers in a shop is a total waste of time. remember monitor speakers have that 'opposite effect' thing going on. ie, if there's not enough 1k or if the crossover is weird, then you'll likely compensate for that in your mixes by adding too much. likewise for bottom end, if you can't judge how much or if you have too much bottom end in the monitor, you'll compensate by taking it out of your mix.

that's why learning how your mix decisions translate outside your room matters more than the speakers themselves.

i used to mix on NS10's - they are good enough to pull mixes on (despite what the internet says) but my beef was that they were fatiguing, and after 5-6 hours of mixing i'd have a headache. that's why I bought the focals.

lastly i've come to realise that you actually need different speakers for different tasks;

- mixing you need honest, unhyped and familar
- tracking with a band you need loud (not always but most time)
- impromptu a&r/management meetings in the studio you need loud and hyped

these are rarely the same speaker...

Chris