Turtlerock Forum

Inspired by the latest posts regarding OTB summing, I thought I would finally have a crack at it again.

(Don't kill me Rob! I've had the Passive Mix for longer than I care to admit...)

and...I'm screwing something up. Badly...

I'm trying to figure out all the issues I'm having:

1. Crazy feedback and what appears to be overloading of the signal on the way back in. Although I'm not even close to hitting the Red on the meters in Reaper. Weird.

I'm sending out 8 tracks currently, into my passive mixer. The patching that into 2 x API 512c's. Then into 2 x API 527's. I've tried to go directly into 527's by themselves aswell.

2. Can't seem to send out the audio and monitor it coming back into reaper.

Probably need to sort out the Reaper issues first. That might help me to narrow down the other issues.

I've tried the hardware outs on each channel and then muting the master-send on the individual tracks. I've tried setting up folders with hardware outs on them with no master send. Then I take the stereo back in and record the inputs.

Anyway, anyone doing out out of the box summing with Reaper? I'm trying to find a lose end to tie off to begin this problem solving

Not sure it's so much a Reaper issue. I suggest you try monitoring from the passive mixer if the API are sends or the final stereo out from last API into speakers. You can't send a signal and monitor the return on any DAW.

wouldnt you lets say you have 10 outputs on your interface, and at least 2 inputs.

outputs 1-8 go to passive mixer (4 stereo stems perhaps) via reaper, busses if you have to.

outputs 9 and 10 are connected to your monitors.

passive mixer is connected to api preamps and then into api compressor, gain staged correctly.

output of compressor goes to inputs 1 and 2 of your interface.

You create new track in reaper, set its inputs to 1 and 2, record enable.

now when you hit play, you should be good.

Note I dont use reaper. But the premise is the same

As I understand it, Yes, you can record the incoming signal from the summing but you can't monitor the incoming signal and outgoing signal at the same time. You must monitor from the summing to mix and then record back into DAW without hearing the input.

tunetown wrote:As I understand it, Yes, you can record the incoming signal from the summing but you can't monitor the incoming signal and outgoing signal at the same time. You must monitor from the summing to mix and then record back into DAW without hearing the input.

Weird... what i wrote up, to my mind, is no different than monitoring any source when you are recording.

Wiz wrote:

tunetown wrote:As I understand it, Yes, you can record the incoming signal from the summing but you can't monitor the incoming signal and outgoing signal at the same time. You must monitor from the summing to mix and then record back into DAW without hearing the input.

Weird... what i wrote up, to my mind, is no different than monitoring any source when you are recording.

just re read what you posted...

why would you want to monitor the outgoing signal? why not just monitor the incoming signal, which is everything processed?

Maybe my system works differently to others, however, I send 24 outs going to individual channels on the console. That then is summed to 2 tracks and is sent to any other hardware processor, i.e. 2 buss comp or eq. I am monitoring this via the console so I know what I'm mixing. If I then patchbay the final 2 track with the hardware processing backing into a 2 track input I cannot monitor this input as it feeds back. Simple though, I just record without monitoring, or, as I now do, record the tape out of the console dirctly to the Korg M1000.

I'll be interested to know how to record and monitor inputs whilst mixing through hardware though. I'm always willing to learn. Tracking is entirely different.

I always monitor my 2-buss after it has come back into the computer.
At the moment, I use my outputs 1-14 for summing, bring them back in on a stereo pair of inputs, and have outputs 15-16 directly connected to my monitoring chain.
I've got aux inputs for my monitoring chain on the patchbay, so if I want I can listen to the mix before it goes back into the DAW, but I don't very often. Only when checking if the converters are doing it justice!

If you guys are getting feedback loops, you must either be creating a loop by sending a stem and the mix out the same pair of channels, or you might have some sort of auto-monitoring occurring in your converters. I know with my old RME I accidentally hit a button a few times and it auto routed anything coming into the inputs out to it's corresponding output. This gave me some feedback a few times and really confused me.

Yeh, your right. I remember trying it years ago and I think I must have been using the same pair of channels. It's just not a problem when monitoring off the console and not software.

Yep, I used to just monitor off the outputs of my summing mixer, but a few times I got some clocking problems that I didn't notice until I thought I'd finished the track. That got me into the habit of always monitoring through the DAW.
My setup is a lot more stable now, but I guess I still don't trust the digital gremlins to behave all the time!

Yeah Ideally I'd like to monitor after I've gone back in to my DAW. However that might not be possible as it sounds. I might have to patch my monitors into the outputs of the comp and then print it in deaf.

I did try and record it in without hearing it and I still get this weird feedback and 'chorusy' effect. Also when the left channel hits one pre it's peaking it out something crazy and I have to do this insane padding/balancing act between left and right signals and it sounds horrible.

Ugh. I guess it's a bit hard to diagnose over the internet - so I'll have to have another look at it tonight.

Any other reaper-eans doing OTB summing?

I know nothing about reaper

but basic principles ... make sure that the channels you are returning the mix into are NOT routed to any of the outputs that you are using to send to the passive mixer. Either on any buss or routing setup in reaper nor in any interface mixer or software.

I'd bet that the 'weird phasey' thing you're getting is hearing the stems and the summed mix through the same monitoring- the summed mix will be a few ms later than the stems and causes this sound- Just like if you print effects on some tracks and don't mute the originals.

What Rob said !

When recording back to the daw, change the channel out to a bus that isn't being used.
You can usually monitor via headphones in the console.
One of the reasons I use an external recorder..same as Tunetown , Korg m1000.

Cheers

I remember now. All my 24 outs are used to send to the desk. This was why I went to the external recorder. And besides, with the Korg M1000 at 5.6khz and 1 bit, it sounds just like coming from the desk and it's a whole bunch easier than 2 track tape. Although you must use the line in and not the XLR. I also use this to sample rate adjust from 96k 24 bit to 44.1k 16 bit. Just record the high res and re-record into whatever medium is required.

Didn't get a chance last night to check it out. I'll try tommorrow night.

I'll also check the incoming tracks' outputs in case it's being fed out again and feeding back from that.

Thanks again for everyone's responses! Appreciate it!