article on 9msn about state of play O/S for AU bands..

[TimS]

http://news.ninemsn.com.au/article.aspx?id=852525
not that rivetting, but there is a good line from a US record exec at the end... what a dufuss!!!

[heathen]

The yanks love to claim all the good Aussie stuff as thier own.

[Futureman]

Just as Australians like to claim the good NZ bands as their own.. lol.

[heathen]

Just as Australians like to claim the good NZ bands as their own.. lol.

We never! :) Well um.............

[ChrisW]

Just based on the Guy Sebastian aspect of the story, I'm not surprised at all.
New York is no longer a music mecca (in my experience) and anyone trying to make it in America is going to have a tough struggle, whatever their background and previous achievements.
I was surprised though with the claim that Australian bands are particularly discriminated against and that managers, A&R etc play down the Aussie origins of bands.
Anyway, Wolfmother seem to have done OK recently.

[TimS]

Anyway, Wolfmother seem to have done OK recently.

Didn't they have great success in UK/Europe moreso than the US?

[ChrisW]

Possibly, I'm not sure I wasn't there.
But they certainly did very well in the U.S. with the first album. Quite an achievement.

[Aearth]

A few years back an R&B Kiwi band based here in Sydney were doing great guns here and played/sounded awesome. They went to USA to try it out, when they came back (after a very short time) they split up. They were just another R&B band, one of thousands.
Playing music is just a small part of making it these days, you have to be a package deal or something really different or super good looking. Being a great musician means nothing.


nIC

[TimS]

Playing music is just a small part of making it these days, you have to be a package deal or something really different or super good looking. Being a great musician means nothing.

nIC

Yep, unfortunately that is the state of play these days..
I play music (and have done so for 25yrs) - because I LOVE it and it gives me immense enjoyment - it is almost therapeutic for me.. and the guys (and gal - drummer) in our band are awesome folks to hang with.
I dont care that I dont look the part, or that I play like Satriani - I play and sound like me - and thats all that matters to me..
.
.
.
Ahh, that feels better already..
:-}

[beatmad]

Just based on the Guy Sebastian aspect of the story, I'm not surprised at all.

Me neither. Does the guy really think he deserves a break? Does he think anybody over there actually cares? Didn't Kylie flop too? And Robbie Williams etc. etc... They have more than their share of manufactured bands but assuming your marketing machine is in place and you're good looking and your personality appeals to American tastes and you can conceivably fit somewhere in the minds of the American public as an inclusive figure in the empire and... I think authenticity plays a big part.

[Aearth]

Playing music is just a small part of making it these days, you have to be a package deal or something really different or super good looking. Being a great musician means nothing.

nIC

Yep, unfortunately that is the state of play these days..
I play music (and have done so for 25yrs) - because I LOVE it and it gives me immense enjoyment - it is almost therapeutic for me.. and the guys (and gal - drummer) in our band are awesome folks to hang with.
I dont care that I dont look the part, or that I play like Satriani - I play and sound like me - and thats all that matters to me..
.
.
.
Ahh, that feels better already..
:-}

The best way to enjoy music is don't do it as a job.
I'm watching Idol and thinking these poor kids trying to make it a career for the rest of their lives, like engineering or carpentry or health care. Sony pushing their spin making out it's the only thing in life to do and through them (Sony). Crushing their spirit, direction and style.
Have you noticed that most music on popular media is starting to sound all the same, that's because you have to conform to the record companies' formula to success. Pop, pop, more pop.

nIC

[ChrisW]

It's a great job.
I wouldn't swap it for anything.
It's just a lot of hard work, sacrifice and even then the chances of making it big are slim.

[TimS]

Playing music is just a small part of making it these days, you have to be a package deal or something really different or super good looking. Being a great musician means nothing.

nIC

Yep, unfortunately that is the state of play these days..
I play music (and have done so for 25yrs) - because I LOVE it and it gives me immense enjoyment - it is almost therapeutic for me.. and the guys (and gal - drummer) in our band are awesome folks to hang with.
I dont care that I dont look the part, or that I play like Satriani - I play and sound like me - and thats all that matters to me..
.
.
.
Ahh, that feels better already..
:-}

The best way to enjoy music is don't do it as a job.
I'm watching Idol and thinking these poor kids trying to make it a career for the rest of their lives, like engineering or carpentry or health care. Sony pushing their spin making out it's the only thing in life to do and through them (Sony). Crushing their spirit, direction and style.
Have you noticed that most music on popular media is starting to sound all the same, that's because you have to conform to the record companies' formula to success. Pop, pop, more pop.

nIC

I must agree niC.
I've worked in healthcare for 27yrs and played music semi-pro/pro for 25yrs. Its a happy medium for me in that format too.
Sure I made money out of music (it funded ALOT of gear purchases when I was buying lots of guitar gear) but gear is just gear - it doesnt make me play any better.
I recently stopped using my Lexicon MPX G2 in my guitar rig and went back to plugging just into the front of my amp - for so long I was infatuated with grease (FX and whatnot) on my tone.
Now my tone is killer and I just use a wha and a chorus pedal for some clean stuff - stripping it back to raw just makes me FEEL and PLAY better..

It's a great job.
I wouldn't swap it for anything.
It's just a lot of hard work, sacrifice and even then the chances of making it big are slim.

I agree too Chris - but it also is hard work playing for fun, especially if you want to be good at what you do regardless..
The bar is always being raised whether you are a pro or amateur.. everyone demands a high standard..
You have a great career and have played with many greats - I've got the Dire Straits DVD with you playing for them (On The Night)
Its all good and worth every moment..

[ChrisW]

I just don't think you have to 'conform' to a pop formula to enjoy a career in music.
And you can enjoy music while being full time in the biz too.

I'm just reading a lot of negativity about music and music professionals on various fora these days.

[TimS]

I just don't think you have to 'conform' to a pop formula to enjoy a career in music.
And you can enjoy music while being full time in the biz too.

I'm just reading a lot of negativity about music and music professionals on various fora these days.

I'm not disagreeing with you at all Chris.
I know what you mean.

[Aearth]

I just don't think you have to 'conform' to a pop formula to enjoy a career in music.
And you can enjoy music while being full time in the biz too.

I'm just reading a lot of negativity about music and music professionals on various fora these days.

Chris, you are right about enjoying without conforming but this seems to be pressure put on young musicians these days. I have just gone through this with my youngest son's band. When they started writing and performing their own music at 16/17 years of age, I thought they were the biggest and refreshing new talent around. So did Sony and they followed them around for about 2 years, sending our song writer to work with a bunch of their writers. The tunes started to change, the pressure grew on the boys till they got to a stage they started to hate their sound/music. I'm talking about really good young musicians, a labels dream, played good and looked great.

They looked at or should I say looked through the music business and stopped playing and split-up. My son who is a blessed guitarist now flies planes and plans go to Uni next year, the rest of the band are going to Uni as well.

nIC

[ChrisW]

The problem there, if I may be so bold, is to forget what they started doing it for and get seduced by the big label.
Easy to do, and I've probably only learnt this after many, many years.
The successful bands are set on doing their own thing, come hell or high water.
Once you change to suit someone else's agenda, a bad outcome is almost always inevitable. As beatmad so rightly puts it, you lose a lot of your authenticity.
When I was young, (around the punk era) you played in bands because you were driven to by musical desire. These bands tried to be the best they could be. The goal wasn't to create a band that could easily get a record deal, although we wouldn't have knocked one back of course.
Especially in these times of a new reality in the business, I think the big labels are becoming less important.
Young bands should focus on their music and their audience, and much less on pleasing major record company executives.

[Aearth]

The problem there, if I may be so bold, is to forget what they started doing it for and get seduced by the big label.
Easy to do, and I've probably only learnt this after many, many years.
The successful bands are set on doing their own thing, come hell or high water.
Once you change to suit someone else's agenda, a bad outcome is almost always inevitable. As beatmad so rightly puts it, you lose a lot of your authenticity.
When I was young, (around the punk era) you played in bands because you were driven to by musical desire. These bands tried to be the best they could be. The goal wasn't to create a band that could easily get a record deal, although we wouldn't have knocked one back of course.
Especially in these times of a new reality in the business, I think the big labels are becoming less important.
Young bands should focus on their music and their audience, and much less on pleasing major record company executives.

I totally agree with you Chris and that is what the message should be to all new/young bands and musicians. It's so easy to go indi now and get your music played eg. itunes. But the talent should all know clearly there is no free ride, get out and do it yourself, also keep as far away from the labels as possible till they can get strong and road harden to handle the no talent of the big fat suites.

nIC

[beatmad]

The problem there, if I may be so bold, is to forget what they started doing it for and get seduced by the big label.
Easy to do, and I've probably only learnt this after many, many years.
The successful bands are set on doing their own thing, come hell or high water.
Once you change to suit someone else's agenda, a bad outcome is almost always inevitable. As beatmad so rightly puts it, you lose a lot of your authenticity.
When I was young, (around the punk era) you played in bands because you were driven to by musical desire. These bands tried to be the best they could be. The goal wasn't to create a band that could easily get a record deal, although we wouldn't have knocked one back of course.
Especially in these times of a new reality in the business, I think the big labels are becoming less important.
Young bands should focus on their music and their audience, and much less on pleasing major record company executives.

I totally agree with you Chris and that is what the message should be to all new/young bands and musicians. It's so easy to go indi now and get your music played eg. itunes. But the talent should all know clearly there is no free ride, get out and do it yourself, also keep as far away from the labels as possible till they can get strong and road harden to handle the no talent of the big fat suites.

nIC

I think this is the way too. If you watch OZ Idle (pun intended) you might be lead to believe there is only one way to create a life in music. Everything is focused on "making it" and the place you want to get to is "the top", the way to do it is by courting the large labels and doing what they tell you to because they know best. I watched a bit of the last Idle mainly because I was interested in how Wes would get on. I've performed with him on the same bill before Idle and was impressed with his talent, energy and a good dose of originality. First album aside I still hope he can pull through and create something authentic but he has chosen to take on the machine. This is the essence of David and Goliath to me. For him to succeed as an artist, think authenticy, originality and longevity, he will have to slay or atleast tame the monster and become it's master. Good luck to him but as Aearth said there are better ways to go about it these days.

[ChrisW]

One of the reasons it would be hard to make it on your own terms in Oz is the smallness of the market.
I've spoken to guys in indie style bands, and their gig schedule consists of 6 shows, then they have to lay off the road until they can go back and play those 6 towns again.
Oasis for example toured endlessly around the UK, playing pubs, universities and rock clubs. They had a sizable and enthusiastic following before any record company had even picked up on them. They'd also ironed out a lot of naiveness and written most of their future hits.

Even more so in America, where there s a big enough audience and enough venues to support a band as it develops over several months.

Back in the 80's in London people used to put bands together to get signed. The goal was to have just enough songs for the first album and play as few shows as possible.
In order to attract the attention of majors you had to appear to be their 'perfect' band.
The trouble is, an A&R man's perfect band is often the audience's perfect band of a year ago. And that's why so many of these company moulded bands don't appeal to the audience.

[Aearth]

Chris, years ago there was a band playing in nearly every Australian pub or club, now there are poker machines and bistros. The pub scene was where all the big and no name bands got their start from, doing 4 to 6 hrs of playing per night. Now there is a hand full of gigs and bands doing a 40 minute spot.
What happen, it's like I died and came back to life in different country and time.

nIC

[ChrisW]

Chris, years ago there was a band playing in nearly every Australian pub or club, now there are poker machines and bistros. The pub scene was where all the big and no name bands got their start

I can well imagine.
Time marches on......not always for the best.

[beatmad]

Chris, years ago there was a band playing in nearly every Australian pub or club, now there are poker machines and bistros. The pub scene was where all the big and no name bands got their start from, doing 4 to 6 hrs of playing per night. Now there is a hand full of gigs and bands doing a 40 minute spot.
What happen, it's like I died and came back to life in different country and time.

nIC

I remember those days when bands played so loud you had a permanent ringing in your ears :) In that sense I'm glad those days are over. I think a real revolution in live music would be if bands had a sound guy as a band member and were able to communicate with him/her in depth about their needs and the differences between them and reality of achieving them. Or is a good mixer still too rare a breed? Hey the sound guy could play for free or pocket money too then since he'd be part of the band :)