Pro Tools HD VS LE

[HA_DA_JA]

The other night I was in an audio schools studio using a HD system through a control 24. I was mixing on my headphones (sennheiser HD595).
When I got the project home I started using my 002R and immediately heard there was a loss of top end and a more closed sound.
I dont think I was dreaming this but is this due to the different converters that are employed in the two separate systems?
If so how does one improve the sound of the 002R experience?
Cheers

[Jason]

I run a better quality converter off the spdif out for monitoring. Made a big difference.

I have not had the chance to compare the same projects on HD and LE so I can not really comment on that one.

[walding]

Well BIG cans of worms here, but HD has a 48 bit fixed point internal mix buss and LE has 32 floating point, so depending on who you believe there could be a difference, however in saying that the converters in the 002 racks are somewhat lacking (putting it mildly) and I'd say what you were 'mainly' hearing was the difference between DA conversion.

5 cents worth

[rick]

i would be looking at the headphone amps myself
they suck

[NYMo]

Hi there,

A Black Lion 002 mod might help !

or buy my HD2 PCie (may be going radar !)

cheers
N
Y
MO

[waitup]

I move between HD in one studio and LE (002) at the other place, and I know the sound difference you're talking about. I think if you're careful about a few things, LE is a perfectly acceptable platform for rock/pop recordings and the like (especially if you're running 96k).

Things you can do are already mentioned here, but I would second Ricks suggestion to avoid the headphones amp, and also what Jason said about the SPDIF IO I would agree with. You can get a nice 2ch DA/AD without selling your first born and it definitely makes a difference. You could buy (or build if you're handy with an iron) a nice headphones amp to run off your new DA and you'd be on your way to a very decent setup there.

One thing to anyone thinking about the black lion mods, you might consider how much it would cost you to send your unit there and back. You'd probably be better off selling your 002, buying a 003 from the US, getting them to send it to black lion and then getting black lion to send the modded unit to you.

Cheers,

Nick.

[lonearranger]

Would be interesting to do an ITB reference mix of the same project on both systems and then listen to each of them in different environments, that way you would see if it it the systems/mix engine or your converters.

Burn them both off to a cd and listen somewhere neutral and see if you can hear any difference.

Be interested to know the results.

[Aearth]

I would rather use Logic Pro 8 or 9 rather than an PTLe system.

nIC

[waitup]

I would rather use Logic Pro 8 or 9 rather than an PTLe system.

nIC

I would rather die than use Logic Pro 8 or 9..... kiiiiiding!

[geofflee]

What has Logic got to do with the topic?

[TimS]

good point Geoff..

[Aearth]

What has Logic got to do with the topic?

I did mention PTLe.
But until Digidesign gets serious about their host system format PTLe, all the other host systems are moving forward leaving Le behind.
Don't get me wrong geoffy I use and love my PT HD system but Le just needs more and Digi won't give. You would be surprised what the delay compensation does for your mix, Logic and others have it, so does PTHD but Le does not.
PTLe 8 gives you 48 track, pay another $500 dollars and you have 96 tracks. It goes on and on and on.
If you want a good sounding mix then track on Le and mix on HD or use something else.

nIC

[geofflee]

I've got a Logic 8 file open at the moment. Still nothing to do with HD vs Le though...(I mean bringing logic into it)

[Jason]

[/quote]I did mention PTLe.
But until Digidesign gets serious about their host system format PTLe, all the other host systems are moving forward leaving Le behind.
Don't get me wrong geoffy I use and love my PT HD system but Le just needs more and Digi won't give. You would be surprised what the delay compensation does for your mix, Logic and others have it, so does PTHD but Le does not.
PTLe 8 gives you 48 track, pay another $500 dollars and you have 96 tracks. It goes on and on and on.
If you want a good sounding mix then track on Le and mix on HD or use something else.

nIC[/quote]

I would have to agree with nick on this one. LE SUCKS!!!! but I don't and probably never will have the money to go down the HD path.

I use that mellowmuse ATA to fix my delay problems. Lets me use outboard gear as inserts too which is great. Payed the extra money to get more tracks and beat detective working properly which is good.

Mixes come out alright but still prefer Reaper.

[musikwerks]

You guys are hilarious.

Do you know how many albums or TV shows are mixed on LE systems? Puh-lennnnty.

For $1,500 bucks you have a 48 track, 24/96 capable studio.... are you not at all surprised that it sounds different to it's $20k big brother?

A little perspective maybe....?

[Linear]

Digidesign are like Microsoft. They are successful because they've built up a proprietary, de-facto standard platform that alot of people use. That 'standard' unfortunately isn't that great, but once your stuck with using the interface and their hardware, there's little incentive to move to other platforms.

They then work on extracting (or as I like to see it, extorting) as much money from their dedicated users as humanly possible.

Why do I think LE is a pile of horsesh!t?

- Restricting, via software, the maximum number of Inputs and Outputs to 18.
- Restricting, via software, the total number of tracks (32)
- Making you pay an extra $500 to extend that to 48, which is still a pathetically low number.
- Making you pay for MP3 export functionality.
- Forcing you to use their proprietary hardware (which really isn't that great).
- Providing no delay compensation in LE.

I don't know about V8 but I'm sure it's not much better.

And Kris, just because something is used alot doesn't necessarily mean it's good - that's sheep mentality. Plenty of people made records with ADATs and I think you'd be pressed to consider any of them breaking any new ground sonically.

Chris

[musikwerks]

It doesn't mean it's great, it just means it works.

If you don't like paying $500 for 48 tracks then go and pay $20k for it with an HD system. Or don't use it at all and stop complaining.

Geez, you guys are a pack of whingers sometimes.

[musikwerks]

btw... with LE8 and DV toolkit you get 128 tracks..... all for the extortioist price of approximately $4k. Shame on you Digi.

[Linear]

thank god we all don't have that attitude to how things function.

well, it sounds shitty, isn't value for money and is restrictive but who cares, it works.

good luck!

Chris

[walding]

btw... with LE8 and DV toolkit you get 128 tracks..... all for the extortioist price of approximately $4k. Shame on you Digi.

Which every other platform on the planet gives us for free :P

Like the program as for the company well..........................

[musikwerks]

Chris, I never said it sounded great. But for the money it is good value. Remember when $6k would only get you a Ta@#$% PortaStudio?

As for my "attitude" about it's function... I don't care. Two episodes of an 8 episode TV series and LE was paid for. It's a no brainer and it does the job. Hell, an Mbox micro is sufficient! That's all I care about. You can have as much 'high end' and elitist gear as you like but if you go broke acquiring and maintaining it, what on earth is the point?

It really is about perspective. If you don't like Digi then don't use it...Bloody hell.... is it that hard to work out?

[Linear]

Great! Then it's settled.

- If you make TV shows or ads, don't care about how something sounds and aren't 'elitist', then buy LE.
- If you make music, care about how it sounds and don't want to be ripped off, then buy something else.

No point arguing about it, it's Saturday and I've got things to do.

Take it easy,

Chris

[DrAlienSmith]

What? PTLE doesn't have delay compensation? Thats a deal breaker. I was thinking about getting PT8Mpowered just for my work experience guys to muck around on but I think I'll stick with teaching them Samplitude.

Al

[walding]

Great! Then it's settled.

- If you make TV shows or ads, don't care about how something sounds and aren't 'elitist', then buy LE.
- If you make music, care about how it sounds and don't want to be ripped off, then buy something else.

No point arguing about it, it's Saturday and I've got things to do.

Take it easy,

Chris

:D

Maybe thats why I use DP

[heathen]

Until they have ADC in LE I'll refuse to buy it. For about 5 grand you can buy a Rosetta 800, cubase 5 and probably a PC to run it on. Heaps better than even an HD system.

[Jason]

[quote="musikwerks"]
Geez, you guys are a pack of whingers sometimes.[/quote]

Got to do something in my spare time ;-) My wife just tells me to bugger off.

[Aearth]

Until they have ADC in LE I'll refuse to buy it. For about 5 grand you can buy a Rosetta 800, cubase 5 and probably a PC to run it on. Heaps better than even an HD system.

Heath you mention Cubase and not PT Le or HD. Now the geoffy will get upset.


nIC

[ChrisW]

FWIW, I'm happily using PT LE.
Not that I'm scoring soundtracks or making records right now.
I like it's ease of use and limitations, especially the midi.
I might buy Logic (again) soon.
I only used Logic for most of the 90's, but got sick of the ever complicated feature set.
I can't ever see me shelling out $$$$ for PTHD, and PTLE is not quite up to what I really need, so Logic it probably is.
(What Digi really need to do is bridge the gap between LE and HD)

[Damien]

get on with making music and stop winging. buy what you can afford/justify. move on.

i want a porsche 911 wide body. i drive a bloody van. i cant justify the expense, but i dont crap on porsche to make their cars the came price as a commodore so i may just buy one.

i use le at home and on the road. i have hd in the studio. im ok with the differences. do i want delay comp in le, yep. im ok with the "limited tracks" i was really happy with 1"16 then i was blown away with 2" 24. man when i got to use a series III fairlight and resord stuff i was in audio bliss..

the current "limited" le blows away what i could have hoped to do in the late 80's demo studio... rant over. laptop off. lets see whats said when i look in later...

[13thbeach]

Digi should build a 48 channel 2 inch machine for "todays" studios. With a built in usb port to transfer all the ...umm .......what do you call it.......oh yeah.."takes" straight in to your tools system, so you can then call them files.
They can call it the Digitaketofile converter. or the DTTF converter. If you get the deluxe model, it'll even make you digicoffee (emulated coffee which really sucks, kinda like decaf, but worse).