Noise Levels

[smash]

Hey All,

Question for anyone who knows, is there any kind of regulation pertaining to the acceptable SPL in a venue or club?

I met up with a friend of mine tonight in a medium sized pub on the northern beaches tonight.

To say it was loud would be a gross misunderstatement. I generally consider myself to be fairly immune to loud volumes, when I am playing guitar I play through a simul 2:90 :twisted:

However this particular Pub, was literally painfully loud. A friend I was with, a hard rock/metal drummer said it was way too loud for him, he left after about 2 minutes.

I know the old trick - cigarette filter--> Earplug. However I am actually genuinly concerned not just for the staff, but also for the drunk 18year olds who don't know any better. One of the people who stayed was unable to have a phone conversation later in the night due to the ringing still in his ears.

Is there meant to be any specific levels that music should stay under?

[chris p]

Hi Smash

In NSW there is no set db level or anything. It depends on the type of noise, its direction and duration, the time of day and its impact upon others.

There are a number of regulations and license conditions under the Liquor Act that apply to licensed premises, mostly to do with "being a good neighbour". The main noise regs, though, are under the Environment Protection Act umbrella. If you're intested, see http://www.epa.nsw.gov.au/noise/nglg.htm, and specifically http://www.epa.nsw.gov.au/resources/nglgpart2.pdf - this is the EPA's guide to the noise police about assessing whether noise is "offensive" or "intrusive".

So a band is too loud when someone complains about it. There's also been news lately of an amendment to noise assessment along the lines of "who was there first ?" - so if you buy a house next to a pub, you'll have problems complaining about Friday or Saturday nights unless its something excessive.

For the premises owner, there is also the OH&S issue for staff

[Mark Bassett]

Is that 85dB A-weighed or C-Weighted?

[chris p]

C-weighted

- as you would have read had you followed the link :lol: :lol:

[chris p]

.... or is it that you suspect you have a problem in your workplace with noise?

I'd be interested if there are any audiologist gurus out there who know if listening to rock music at 85db for 3 hours is the same as listening to a circular saw at 85db for 3 hours. My suspicion is that our sense of hearing is more tolerant to tonal music, leaving aside the question of whether Phil Glass composes music.

.... except for his experimental piece where all the musicians play silences of different lengths.

[Adam Dempsey]

I can't help but chime in after my recent experience in a smallish room ("Irish pub"), at which I measured (conservatively, with my Nokia) 113dB(A) about 60 degrees off axis, 4m or more from FOH.

Although my understanding (for Vic OH&S) is 85dB(A) for 8hrs max. I knew instinctively as soon as the band began it was damaging. But surely for those too drunk to feel it or act on it...

No ear plugs or signs as to their availability that I saw. I'll be phoning them when I have more info. Seems police & council are the go for action on noise within venues (rather than EPA & council for residential noise disruption). The only legal actions, elsewhere, to my knowledge so far have come from venue staff. So far.

See my post:
http://www.melband.com.au/modules.php?n ... sc&start=0

[Kris]

My understanding of all this is that the police or EPA can only be called if the noise levels affect areas outside the venue. Inside, well, it's kinda "if it's too loud then you can leave". No one is forcing you to stay there so the club usually doesn't care a whole lot.

[Adam Dempsey]

For Victoria, at least, punters should (if no luck with the venue's management) complain to council or police re noise levels at venues:

"EPA enforces the policy for large outdoor music events. For indoor venues such as hotels, restaurants and nightclubs, enforcement of these rules should be referred to the local council or the police. Following a report, police have power under the Environment Protection Act 1970 to instruct a venue to abate any entertainment noise after midnight. These directions stay in force until 8am (see the prohibited times for noise)."
http://www.epa.vic.gov.au/Noise/entertainment_noise.asp

For Sydney:
http://www.cityofsydney.nsw.gov.au/Resi ... emises.asp

And the WA Code of Practice:
http://www.safetyline.wa.gov.au/pagebin ... wa0147.htm

[Martin]

i play in some of those 'irish pubs' and i know for a fact that they are loud as hell and i'm quite possibly damaging some of the peoples ears that stand real close to the speakers...

i do warn them before i start playing but over all levels aren't up to me its up to the mangers and bar people etc...

on one hand though i do try and make the sound going to the room room flat as possible because i personally hate nothing more than a club with music that has had every frequency above 12k boosted cause "THERES NOT ENOUGH TOPS BRO!!"

but like was said, no one is making them stay... although i guess alot of them just don't realise the damage they are doing... (neither did i when i was 12 and got my first walkman)

[Peter Knight]

Which Nokia have you got Adam? Does it have a thermometer and GPS as well?

[Andrew]

I was at a party last week with an 80's p.a. system which was about 100watts and the venue needed 300 watts rms. It went right over the limit producing oodles of brain blendering clipping/distortion. It was horrible and I then resolved not to expose myself to that kind of distortion for a least another year....I mean every system has some degree of distortion but that kind is the worst. Call me old fashioned but I think we should have sensible limits (decided by pro's, not gov) and ban poor quality speakers!!! Maybe clubs like that should have a total powerdown when the noise gets to loud like a venue I was at a while ago.....You could trip the system with one loud voice?

[JulienG]

On this topic, does anyone know a place in Melbourne where you can get custom earplugs fitted?

[Jason Dirckze]

On this topic, does anyone know a place in Melbourne where you can get custom earplugs fitted?

You should just be able to look up a local audiologist in your Yellow Pages...

[mfdu]

wife and i were at the white stripes at festering hall last night.

great sound (for festering hall!) but of course there were a few feedback moments and extra loud whoops.

rocked out with my earplugs enjoying the mix (beware the pogo-ing 33 year old). at the end outside the venue i pulled the plugs out and turned to amanda saying "nice"

only then did i realise that she could hardly hear a word i said.

interesting for comparison.

we were both 5 meters from the stage the entire gig. i used cheapo foam plugs from the chemist. my head is fine today, and no phase shift i can discerne. amanda was the designated driver, and she has full tinitis/headache situation going.

had a mate get custom earplugs for $300 or so. variable dB filtering, flat frequency response - went to the tote to try them out, and one fell in the toilet. bugger.

go figure.

chris.

[Kris]

Check out wwww.ultimateears.com

or locally I think Ear Monitors Australia are in Melbourne. They do custom mouldings for IEM's so era plugs shouldn't be much of a stretch.

[Adam Dempsey]

Which Nokia have you got Adam? Does it have a thermometer and GPS as well?

5140i - don't think it has GPS, but yes: SPL meter (A & C weighting or none), therm, spirit level/compass, radio, WAP, torch etc. Oh, it's a telephone, too.




"I'm not afraid of computers taking over the world. They're just sitting there. I can hit them with a two by four"
- Thom Yorke, Radiohead

[Mitch Kenny]

The Deafness Foundation in Welington Parade East Melbourne or THe Melbourne University School of Audiology next to the Eye and Ear Hospital do what they call musicians ear plugs. THe best 200$ I have ever spent (twice cause I lost a set!!!) School Of Audiology comes with an extensive hearing test if you want to go and show off how well you have been looking after your ears.

[Chris H]

The Deafness Foundation in Welington Parade East Melbourne or THe Melbourne University School of Audiology next to the Eye and Ear Hospital do what they call musicians ear plugs. THe best 200$ I have ever spent (twice cause I lost a set!!!)

Thanks for the info. I'll go get a set.
In the late 80's, I used some Norton ear plugs i got from Allsafe safety industries.
For $40 they were a latex ear plug with an aluminum cylinder with a baffle to attenuate the high frequencies and lower the dB a few notches.
After i lost them i used some plugs i got for surfing. They are like the molded plugs but with a small hole to let the ear 'breathe'.Not as good as the nortons but better than foam.

[Mitch Kenny]

I was sceptical that they would attenuate equally over the spectrum but the audiology school did two hearing tests...one with the plugs out and one with them in and the chart which they plotted showed exactly the same results only 25db softer. Worth the effort I think for the peace of mind

[Barney Loveland]

Plugs, can't recommend them enough.

Hear Service, cnr high st and 597 st kilda rd, melb

www.hearservice.com.au (part of Vic deaf society)

[PeterR]

from my understanding the 85dbA rating is an equivalent.

Aus WHS specs 85dbA for 8hrs equivalent, ISO specifies 90dbA for 8hrs equivalent.

I cant find the Aus WHS equivalent tables online but ISO specs 3hrs of 97dbA is equivalent to 8hrs of 90dbA.

I'd say that most pubs and clubs would be up for WHS breaches for bar staff unless they provide hearing protection.

[Jason Dirckze]

Does anyone else here that owns Muso's plugs,, notice an increase in bass? Or are my plugs not working correctly...

I talked to a friend who said the plugs should be flat, but when I put mine in, the highs seem to be attenuated nice and even, but the bass doesnt seem to drop as much

[Adam Dempsey]

from my understanding the 85dbA rating is an equivalent.

Aus WHS specs 85dbA for 8hrs equivalent, ISO specifies 90dbA for 8hrs equivalent.

I cant find the Aus WHS equivalent tables online but ISO specs 3hrs of 97dbA is equivalent to 8hrs of 90dbA.

I'd say that most pubs and clubs would be up for WHS breaches for bar staff unless they provide hearing protection.

Too right. And to my knowledge law suits have been in relation only to staff exposure, but thousands of partying punters would get at least 109dB(A) for around 3 hrs in any night (the instantaneous level I measured 60 degrees off axis). So I'd say it's a fair bet that it's a matter of time before we see punters' legal action against ignorant venue operators.

Do we just rely on earplugs, however, and not address the issue itself?

My feelings are the issue will address us. (We thought changes re noise limits due to residential complaints was a headache, no pun intended, for engineers). Some engineers had better get used to conservative mixing levels - for good sound, not level - and greater proactive communication with band members.