Uh Oh!

[Sammas]

http://www.airusersblog.com/home-page/2 ... ocked.html


AVID could be in deeep shit.

[heathen]

Sounds like the hackers actually got it working properly.

[musikwerks]

Seriously... would any of you install a hacked version of pro tools? The risk you're taking is enormous, and forget tech support or software upgrades, not to mention no HD cards to process and the risk of there being a virus in the hack.

[chris p]

Seriously... would any of you install a hacked version of pro tools?

Exactly. Like many here, I'm a hack-free zone for all my software (although I run Logic rather than PT, so the incentive to hack is far less - I mean, what's the point of losing all the good stuff when the price is so low anyway and you are not so restricted in your hardware).

Unfortunately for AVID, the story has changed from the hack into how they are trying to suppress the hack story. AIRUSERSBLOG's experience suggests a real bunker mentality at AVID Central. They should employ Musikwerks to write their response - that post really says all that AVID needed to say in two sentences!

[Linear]

I don't think I would, but it does raise an interesting question.

A friend of mine bought a copy of cubase, but he found through a friend that the hacked copy worked better than the original (due to the dongle I think) - it was due to his computer, but since he'd paid for the legitimate copy as far as I could tell he wasn't doing anything wrong.

So, considering I've already paid (begrudgingly) for my protools hardware and software, would I be doing anything wrong by using a cracked copy of the same piece of software? I've always thought that the voice limit was a complete joke (given that it's a software limitation).

Chris

[Chris H]

Seriously... would any of you install a hacked version of pro tools? The risk you're taking is enormous, and forget tech support or software upgrades, not to mention no HD cards to process and the risk of there being a virus in the hack.

Well, i won't be downloading it as i'm happy with logic but there will be an impact for Avid. Having the plugins available to non PT users would be a nice option.
What's interesting to me is the lack of goodwill Avid seems to be fostering with that particular blog that was supportive of their product in a time they need to pay attention to that aspect of their business.
There could even be a + in some respects, for avid having Tools (for fools) unlocked from the hardware:)

[heathen]

Yeah that's it, stupid limitations on a real copy versus no limitations on a hack, I don't use toolz so am not even interested in this anyway. As Linear said, having bought the real thing and the hack may work better, it has been the case with wa*es too, people owing it and buying it and having it not work in time for projects after spending thousands, then installing the crack and leaving it there cause it worked so well.

Not advocating cracks I just find it ironic is all.

[Son of Sam]

Avid are absolutely pathetic!

Other DAW makers have borne the brunt of the cracking onslaught for a long time and are still in business.
I think the issue here is that Avid thought they were untouchable for so long and have behaved accordingly because they thought they had their users over a barrel, well it's time to reap the whirlwind Avid!!!

Echoing what some have said already "It couldn't happened to a nicer company"

[Kurt]

Maybe they should bring back Pro-Tools free. Seemed like a great way to get people familiar with the platform so that when they wanted to take the plunge they'd be more likely to consider buying 'tools.

Having a stripped down free version may reduce the likelihood of people taking the risk on a cracked copy since most people rarely use the full functionality of DAW's anyway. The next step may be to sell "LE Lite", software only. They could then compete with Reaper and other low-cost DAW platforms.

[mark rachelle]

I like consumer choice, and integrity within companies whereby what you purchase/subscribe to has an inherent value that stays with your purchase.

It doesnt work to purchase a couple of 30k systems and then have them at 1 tenth the value in 3 years
Nor does it work (for the individual person) to artificially limit a product to make you pay more for upgrades ect.

this way of creating something great then limiting consumers choice has been happening for years

it works only for so long till the consumer gets tired of spending

now if only somebody could hack price points for cars and food!

OH and the big one, can someone please create a hardware product that gives the masses free energy
we have had it for years and i'm tired of paying "rental" on electricity

[Dallas]

OH and the big one, can someone please create a hardware product that gives the masses free energy
we have had it for years and i'm tired of paying "rental" on electricity

Give me a bell, my missus sells solar panels - she can hook you up! :)

[Mickstape]

having owned PTLE for two years now i've had a few issues with it that have made the "support" i got worth paying for.

That said with this latest development i am interested to see how the crack goes, a friend of mine is in the process (i hear the sniggers already, i don't need it, havnt got the cards so why bother) of downloading the m-powered crack, i am of the opinion that its not going to function that well but he claims that if he doesnt have to pay for the HD rack and cards then he's up for it as it frees him up to use his existing hardware.

Now i can definitely see the appeal in that last sentence, not having to haul the mbox around and be limited to two inputs sure does tickle my fancy, and as i already own PT if it turns out that it is glitch and problem free i may well turn a blind eye and install it myself.

It poses a question now to the people who actually have been loyal to digi/avid. Now that it is there, without the need for proprietary hardware, will you take the step?

After all you do already own your licence, one that you most surely paid top dollar for, so with this latest development giving you the option to use that other good interface you own with the beast that is PTHD/M-Powered does'nt it make sense to at least see if it works?

Not condoning this at all. What Kris said is true, and although being a mac user i wouldnt particularly be worried about the virus factor as pc users should be, my little conspiracy driven mind wonders if avid have done this themselves to ensnare a few thousand people who have willingly broken the copyright laws by d/l this cracked version. After all if they sense they have lost the grip on the marketshare or that customers grumblings have reached critical level could they have done this to throw people off? after all, for all we know they could very well have been working on some sort of new proprietary security measure for a while now.

my un-educated 2c.

[GlennS]

I am definately against cracked software, however.......
Being able to use HD with any choice of hardware would be pretty cool.
Maybe this will prompt AVID to change there 'limited' hardware option.
I would buy HD tomorrow if I could use it with my SSL converters.
I don't need lot's of DSP etc.
I have M-Powered but the lack of delay compensation stops me using it for anything but project conversion to Cubase 5.
Plus the fact that I have to use an M-Audio box that is inferior to my SSL one....

I've got M-Powered with a lightbridge because it does enable me to use my choice of hardware, to a degree anyway (via lightpipe & S/PDIF). From a professional user's view using a cracked version of HD or M-Powered seems a little pointless. Some of the limits placed upon genuine versions of Pro Tools also seem to be a bit pointless. I hope this setback to Avid becomes an opportunity for them to shake up their business model & to provide a better system for users & a better business for themselves.

Angus, not really knowing the specs of HD interfaces or your SSL converters, is their no possibility at all of making them work together? Just asking out of curiosity.

Cheers,
Glenn

[musikwerks]

I like consumer choice, and integrity within companies whereby what you purchase/subscribe to has an inherent value that stays with your purchase.

It doesnt work to purchase a couple of 30k systems and then have them at 1 tenth the value in 3 years
Nor does it work (for the individual person) to artificially limit a product to make you pay more for upgrades ect.

That's technology fullstop. Not just Avid. Bought a new car? Same thing.

I don't understand why everyone is so pissed at Avid.... Avid and Pro Tools systems make money. Bad Avid!

[musikwerks]

btw... Angus, you can get your SSL converters to talkt to tools with the HD bridge.

[Chinagraf]

I think the SSL Alpha Link does that too?

[Chris H]

I like consumer choice, and integrity within companies whereby what you purchase/subscribe to has an inherent value that stays with your purchase.

It doesnt work to purchase a couple of 30k systems and then have them at 1 tenth the value in 3 years
Nor does it work (for the individual person) to artificially limit a product to make you pay more for upgrades ect.

That's technology fullstop. Not just Avid. Bought a new car? Same thing.

I don't understand why everyone is so pissed at Avid.... Avid and Pro Tools systems make money. Bad Avid!

The pissedoffness is a result of the planned obsolescence that digi is seen to take unfair advantage of in their upgrade policy over the years, as applied to loyal customers who have invested big $$ ....one would think that it would have been prudent in business terms to lessen the upgrade cost for established users. It would be interesting to calculate the total cost of keeping updated with Protools from the 16bit 44.1 beginnings until the latest upgrade system. IMHO they should have treated their customers with a far better upgrade cost path. In the current corporate climate the business outlook is dominated by short term gain rather than long term business building. No one is saying profit is not important but the scales are way outa wack in regard to long term business strategies that often have impact on quality and customer satisfaction. One way to describe the current corporate mindset is that of supreme arrogance, and there will be a backlash from the consumer.

[musikwerks]

I can understand that Chris but I still wonder... isn't it just a cost of doing business? Not just our industry but others as well?

Upgrades are necessary to stay on the 'cutting edge' from a client POV. If they're paying for it then it is just an operating cost.

[rick]

I have a couple of sadie mastering system very expensive very old so old in fact that the company went out of business
but they are back

two nights ago my big system went down and wouldn't get back up
oh no I thought it's upgrade time
I went searching for the software discs but couldn't find them
and in desperation went to the new Sadie website

of course my system is now pushing 10 years old !
But I email for help anyway
10 mins later I get a reply with a link to the complete set of legacy software!
I load that and find my 10k of plugins don't register
oh shit ...
I ask Sadie for help even though the plugs are third party
20 mins later they have written code for my card and I am away

the point being I was just about to quit that daw and a little bit of service
that cost them very little has just got me sticking with them as a loyalty move
so I will be looking at an upgrade

Try that at home avid!

[Sammas]

I like consumer choice, and integrity within companies whereby what you purchase/subscribe to has an inherent value that stays with your purchase.

It doesnt work to purchase a couple of 30k systems and then have them at 1 tenth the value in 3 years
Nor does it work (for the individual person) to artificially limit a product to make you pay more for upgrades ect.

That's technology fullstop. Not just Avid. Bought a new car? Same thing.

I don't understand why everyone is so pissed at Avid.... Avid and Pro Tools systems make money. Bad Avid!

Does it really apply to a car? Sure, it depreciates as soon as it leaves the dealer... but I can buy any make of tire. Any large number of aftermarket spare parts, etc if I choose. Once the initial purchase of the car is m ade, I don't really have to associate with the car manufacturer in anyway if I choose... This is hardly the case with AVID. In fact, the greatest upgrades to a car's performance are probably made by completely avoiding the original manufacturer. Granted this will void the warranty, it still offers consumers choice.

If car manufacturers were anything like AVID, a car would come with just one seat. Every additional seat after that would cost another 40% of the original purchase price.


As a former digidesign user, I don't think people are pissed at avid. More pathetic towards their current position. The proprietary nature of their systems have basically allowed them to ignore their user base to a large degree. Take PDC in LE for example. It was mentioned as "in the works" by a digidesign representative a few years ago in a NAMM video. Still no show. It is losing them money. I'd go back to protools tomorrow if PDC was included in LE... it's a standard in every other daw, basically.

I'm more interested in seeing what Avid do now. It appears "change" isn't on the cards by the replies and cease and desist orders they are dishing out. It's a shame really.

[OzDrum]

Our HD2 Accel system runs flawlessly without a Digidesign Interface - we have a Lynx Aurora 16, an Apogee 16X and a UA2192 converters hanging off it. Obviously you still need the DSP processing power on the cards
to run HD properly. We also have a UAD2 Quad card running the UAD plugins. This gives us 34 inputs at once - I think we've rarely used 20 at once on most sessions and have never run out of processing power, track count or voices unless we haven't managed a session properly. The backup support from Digi has always been exceptional with any issues sorted quickly as well and a crack free environment has definitely kept us "crash" free also!

[musikwerks]

Try that at home avid!

Actually, Avid did the very same thing for me last week.... wrote a software patch to get us back up and running.

I am kind of surprised at most responses here. No one is holding a gun to your head forcing you to use Tools?

Nuendo, Cubase, Logic, Reaper, Presonus, SSL, Boom Recorder.... there are plenty of options if you don't like it.

As to the car analogy.... what you buy with Tools HD are not optional add ons... they are all part of the engine, so to speak.

Regadless, technology is always a bad investment. It NEVER holds its value.... never. To think otherwise is totally wishful thinking.

[Chris H]

So to sum up .....business is business...ignore, of treat your customer base poorly at your peril....simple really. Again it points to arrogance and blind group think mentality at Avid. This added with other issues and the writing seems on the wall, .....as in change is inevitable and Avid looks like being forced into some changes it would otherwise never implement.

[Linear]

my only beef with avid is the software restrictions on IO, voices and hardware. it's all about extracting (or in my opinion, extorting) the maximum amount of money from their user base.

if you were to use the car analogy, it'd be like buying a car that has several 'restrictions' built into it.

so the 'standard' car goes at a electronically-limited maximum speed of 80 km/h, even though it's more than capable of going 200 km/h. want to go faster? you need to pay the manufacturer more money for an 'upgrade kit' that eliminates this restriction.

and oh, you can't just use petrol from any company - it has to come from the manufacturer, and they charge what they like. and you can only use roads owned by the manufacturer, the car doesn't work on normal roads.


that is why there is such a backlash against avid. if they had a bigger market share this would be called an abuse of market power, which is illegal. there is nothing wrong with a company making money - that's capitalism. it's abusing that power and taking advantage of market position that really stinks and pisses everybody off.

Chris

[Sammas]

Try that at home avid!

Actually, Avid did the very same thing for me last week.... wrote a software patch to get us back up and running.

I am kind of surprised at most responses here. No one is holding a gun to your head forcing you to use Tools?

Nuendo, Cubase, Logic, Reaper, Presonus, SSL, Boom Recorder.... there are plenty of options if you don't like it.

Absolutely... but how did you expect us to react? Should we be sending Avid flowers and our condolences? It
ultimately just reaffirms why I opted out of digidesign and protools in the first place. Like I said... pure apathy.

I wouldn't get worried about it. Use what works for you...

As to the car analogy.... what you buy with Tools HD are not optional add ons... they are all part of the engine, so to speak.

To continue the analogy... that makes it one expensive, and under-powered engine by comparison then doesn't it? I could have a 12core mac pro and still only ever get 32(?) tracks in LE unless I spend money on extras... even then I only get 48tracks max regardless of how CPU intensive those tracks maybe. Similar restrictions apply for HD and their dsp cards. More tracks? Gotta buy more cards. According to the article I linked in the first post, it is for no technical reason whatsoever.

Regadless, technology is always a bad investment. It NEVER holds its value.... never. To think otherwise is totally wishful thinking.

I guess it depends what you are doing with it. A bought a nice digital SLR camera a few months ago and it has already recouped it price tag in film that I haven't needed to develop. Not only can digital technology offer better bang for buck, it can also be a lot more efficient. ...that's a whole 'nother type of value really.

[musikwerks]

Totally understand your POV's.

But... you knew all about the restrictions etc when you got into it.... right?

[Sammas]

Totally understand your POV's.

But... you knew all about the restrictions etc when you got into it.... right?

When I got in it they weren't "restrictions". In the context of the technology being
offered at the time they were actually key selling points. HD was released at the
same time as the 2.4ghz pentium 4 was.

A lot has changed in 8 years, particularly in computing technlogy... protools hasn't
though and that is what leaves me shaking my head.

[mark rachelle]

Re the car

what i am referring to is this

take the new Mercedes designs

the had the previous generation SL 55 perfect IMO
nothing to change, the pinnacle of perfection

now a new square design that goes all the way back to American 70s cadillacs (quite a step backwards IMO)

now we have the same game again of getting better all over again little bit by little bit
mid life face lifts,
smoothing of the lines
a slight upgrade here or there.
and slowly but surely your "investment" (or better put, time, money and LIFES ENERGY) is being depleted

What we dont see is that this is all well and truely planned out years ahead

car manufactures know dam well what their cars will look like in 10 years time
so to does digidesign

so systematically our purchases will be down graded and we will be left wanting more
and feeling obsolete when the newer model (err its the same car with a slight change) (or the same software with some extra features added) comes out

then marketing takes over to make you feel the gap between what you have now, and what you think you want!

now i am not saying that any of this this is wrong
its just that we spend our whole lives energy running around trying to be/ create/ have something that is cleverly marketed and accounted in a way that our efforts are redundant in 2 years.

Our ego's enjoy the purchase, but that feeling of satisfaction quickly goes and we are left wanting more.

Big companies know this and have perfected it to their advantage

its at the core level of integrity within the financial free market.

at some point this way has to change as our species evolves.

We need Companies, individuals, legal authorities and governments, to have at their core values respect for the energy, and transformation of others.

unfortunatley we still live in a world of exploitation and making others wrong for our own game
so i guess that brings me to my point in the big scheme of things (ie billions of suns, and trillions of planets) hacking isnt wrong its just illegal and has no integrity.

[musikwerks]

good observations mark.

[vanderlae]

Are you still driving that '55 Merc?

;)

Re the car

what i am referring to is this

take the new Mercedes designs

the had the previous generation SL 55 perfect IMO
nothing to change, the pinnacle of perfection

now a new square design that goes all the way back to American 70s cadillacs (quite a step backwards IMO)

now we have the same game again of getting better all over again little bit by little bit
mid life face lifts,
smoothing of the lines
a slight upgrade here or there.
and slowly but surely your "investment" (or better put, time, money and LIFES ENERGY) is being depleted

What we dont see is that this is all well and truely planned out years ahead

car manufactures know dam well what their cars will look like in 10 years time
so to does digidesign

so systematically our purchases will be down graded and we will be left wanting more
and feeling obsolete when the newer model (err its the same car with a slight change) (or the same software with some extra features added) comes out

then marketing takes over to make you feel the gap between what you have now, and what you think you want!

now i am not saying that any of this this is wrong
its just that we spend our whole lives energy running around trying to be/ create/ have something that is cleverly marketed and accounted in a way that our efforts are redundant in 2 years.

Our ego's enjoy the purchase, but that feeling of satisfaction quickly goes and we are left wanting more.

Big companies know this and have perfected it to their advantage

its at the core level of integrity within the financial free market.

at some point this way has to change as our species evolves.

We need Companies, individuals, legal authorities and governments, to have at their core values respect for the energy, and transformation of others.

unfortunatley we still live in a world of exploitation and making others wrong for our own game
so i guess that brings me to my point in the big scheme of things (ie billions of suns, and trillions of planets) hacking isnt wrong its just illegal and has no integrity.