Hate people that sell you gear not meeting description

[Senad]

Hi guys,
HAve you ever been sold an expensive piece of gear, by a local, Aussie guy, that doesn't fit description and the seller couldn't care less?
I do a deal (privately) with a guy from Sydney on 2 high end units. Wire the money over, units arrive. First box is the more expensive of the 2. Tilt it slightly back and forth (which is a habit when opening new gear) and the thing rattles inside like a baby toy. I go green!
Pop the lid up and see the steel mesh cover,covering the PS has been on toast. Lift it up, the whole circuit board is completely loose in there. One of the trafos has been cut and shut by someone and looks pretty ill.
I phone the seller, they are "very surprised" and think the damage has been caused "in transit". In transit!!??? 5 screws that are supposed to be fastened through the CB and into the chassis have,in fact, been put in through the bottom of the unit, not fastening anything.
I ask if he would refund the money, and I'll even pay for the return post, he says "I've already spent the money" Hahaha, you gotta be fu..in kidding me.
Seller says all was fine with the unit at their place and they might be willing to help pay for someone to look at it. I try switching it on and it fires up. PAsses signal, but with unexpected amount of hiss.
I email the manufacturer in the US, asking them to point me to a repairer in Aus. They kindly offer to rebuild the whole unit for me at just the shipping costs.
I contact the seller asking if they would cover the cost of sending it and bringing it back, they don't wanna hear about it, saying "it was all fine here, and never opened it up in a long time they had it. You got a good deal, so it will still work out fine for you if you pay for the shipping yourself". Fu..ing, c'mon! He proceeds to try and assure me how he's a genuine bloke and has 100% ebay feedback (after saying he'd drop $200 off ebay price and drops only $100, but I don't say anything).. hahaha
I just can't believe some people.
As I find out today, this thing will cost me about $400-500 to send and bring back (btw, I offered the seller to pay only $300 of it). The offer from the manufacturer is a great one, but it's gonna end up costing me nearly as much as a brand new unit, just because the seller was a "genuine guy with 100% ebay f'back".

Sorry for the rant, but I just want to warn people about buying expensive gear without seeing it first, unless brand new. I know it happens all the time, and I've done it many times before (bought gear online 2nd hand outside ebay etc..), but I have learnt my lesson.
Don't let your lesson cost you a few hundred bucks, like mine did.
Good luck.

[Chinagraf]

For $300 you could have flown return on Jetstar to Sydney and punched the seller in the face. That would have been my option.
What a bugger.
I just spent two weeks harassing Aus post and going back and forth with a seller in the Netherlands over a pair of vintage mics that showed up on the tracking site as delivered and signed for, but had not actually been delivered. The guy Aus post had on record as signing for them doesn't work at our place and I've never heard of him. Then today an embarrassed Aus Post driver shows up at the studio full of apologies with my mics, which he had delivered to the wrong place, and if I hadn't come down heavy on Aus Post, I would have never got them back.
Buying on the internotz is fraught with danger.

[Wiz]

I am sorry to hear this.

Some people........

[Junction]

Senad, maybe you should post the guys name here, so we also dont fall into the trap of buying from him.

[Lee]

That sux to hear. I'm still waiting about a year for this guy in newcastle to send me a mic I bought off him. He "still can't find it". One day I hope he finds it.

[audioio]

I'm still waiting about a year for this guy in newcastle to send me a mic I bought off him. He "still can't find it". One day I hope he finds it.

Similar experience with a member of Angus's Facebook Studio Gear group. After a dbx 900 frame failed to arrive, he said "It's not my fault" and "You should have got insurance". Well, he hadn't offered shipping with insurance (and I couldn't have bought it anyway).

I won't name names because he's not here to defend himself and others' experience might be better, but... he's currently offering a clone mic (respected brand... should be all right) for $600 to the group while listing it for $500 on ebay. There's no rule about pricing but most in these communities seem to want to support their fellows by offering a slightly lower price, or at least see a trade-off in not having to cover ebay's fees. I may be reading too much into it, but I find his doing the opposite quite revealing.

[norm]

From the sellers perspective......Currently I am disposing of a large amount of gear and the experiences from buyers is not that hot either. Every buyer has a different level of what they are expecting and in some cases what scientifically measured performance they want. The gear in many cases is 30-80 years old and has been maintained well or repaired sympathetically. However expectations in many cases is for an absolutely mint item in every way. Of course the joints need resoldering and caps replacing as well as many wires replaced as the rubber has rotted. There will be marks and signs of use. Then no matter how well you pack it will be dropped, thrown and mistreated on the way to you and often this will affect the item in question as well. Get real most items will need some local love and care on arrival. I have brought in pallet loads over the years and I expect every item to require some level of work no matter what their description. However if the item cannot be resurrected with a reasonable amount of love then this is a different matter. Recently had a buyer purchase a NOS U67 head off me still in original packing but opened and serviced after40 years by Gunter. Well you should have seen the song and dance in the end he trash's my feedback and keeps the item. Local buyers have taken to comparing prices with the lowest on ebay then want it cheaper and in perfect nick. Well that's not going to happen. My experience has shown that 95% of vintage purchases thru ebay require work at some level and to make these comparisons is totally unrealistic. I expect this will be an interesting thread for a while. Regards to all Norm

[walding]

I have a golden rule, 100 or under, I'll buy off reputable sellers, over a hundred, I need to see, touch and hear the unit...

If I can't, I won't buy.

Simple.

I would break the 2nd rule if it was someone I'd met though and I knew I could trust.

[rick]

I have a buy and sell section here , its designed to close the loop on people offloading broken stuff with out morality concerns for the local crowd we are all part off .. I make nothing , but i buy and sell stuff stuff on ebay too if i expect it to go overseas for the right money I use ebay .


the thing that i guess i have learnt and am still learning is different people have different markers for what they will do to others ..
I ain't religious at all but do one to others as you would have done onto you seems people straight forward and easy enough to subscribe to ..

[Senad]

I don't think naming names publicly is my game, but I am really pissed off too (happy to offer a word of warning in a PM). The seller claims they never felt any rattling in the unit or heard any noise when using it, but I'm not sure how this is possible, unless they never held it in their hands or plugged it in.
Also, to expect some work to be done on every unit you buy, is a bit too tolerant or too naive,for the lack of a better term. If someone says the unit is in a mint condition, it doesn't only mean cosmetically. You want it to work as it is supposed to.

[audioio]

I have a buy and sell section here , its designed to close the loop on people offloading broken stuff with out morality concerns for the local crowd we are all part off

Well, at least when people are off-loading broken stuff, they say it's broken and try to describe the nature of the brokenness (is that a word?). That helps to make this little community a good one. I reckon I'd trust any of you.

[walding]

I have a buy and sell section here , its designed to close the loop on people offloading broken stuff with out morality concerns for the local crowd we are all part off

Well, at least when people are off-loading broken stuff, they say it's broken and try to describe the nature of the brokenness (is that a word?). That helps to make this little community a good one. I reckon I'd trust any of you.

Yep.

I've bought off a few people here, always easy.

Last person sent me the goods and when I couldn't pay him because I didn't have a pay pal account and there was no branch on the mainland, he said just pay him when I go to tassie, a year later I go to tassie and pay him and he'd forgotten about it. Lol.

[Drumstruck]

I'm happy to say that everything I've purchased on t'rock has been as described or better, and hope that others would say the same about what they've purchased from me.
EBay is another story - about 10%of things have been below par, but that's the risk of sight unseen........
Freight insurance and sign on delivery is worth the few extra $s imo. As Norm said, there are different views of what excellent may mean.....

[Hybrid88]

My experience has shown that 95% of vintage purchases thru ebay require work at some level...

Totally, the thing that gets me is when said issues are NOT listed in the description, which in my experience has also been the majority. That pisses me off because that extra work is dollars at the end of the day and they're just being dishonest to get as much as they can. Just worrying that that is becoming the norm, which I'm thankful to say isn't generally the case around here.

[Senad]

Totally, the thing that gets me is when said issues are NOT listed in the description, which in my experience has also been the majority. That pisses me off because that extra work is dollars at the end of the day and they're just being dishonest to get as much as they can. Just worrying that that is becoming the norm, which I'm thankful to say isn't generally the case around here.

Yep.

[norm]

Once again, "said issues" are not always obvious even to those who own them. What is of no issue to one person is of a major issue to another. Then we still have the rough freight system which will kill vintage electronics 8 times out of ten. Damaged tube, cracked joint, heavy trannie bending chassis when dropped or thrown, detached wires, broken knobs the list goes on and on. If you buy mint and want mint go and inspect and carry it home yourself and even then you may still have troubles. So you buy the cheapest item on ebay because you can save 20-30% on a bonafide dealer and go thru the crap of getting it delivered. Then you wonder why you may have some trouble??? As the great saying goes (Pay peanuts and you get monkeys) Regards Norm

[Linear]

i was sitting having a coffee the other day and the local inner west TNT truck pulled up (i often get stuff via TNT).

he opened up the back and it honestly looked as though the truck had been involved in the beverly hills cop opening chase scene. everything was everywhere, thrashed about and boxes piled on boxes like they'd been thrown from some distance.

if it were something remotely fragile - even if packed well - the guts wouldn't have fared very well. i think that's the risk you take when you ship something, and if you want it pristine and 100% risk-free then i'd say go and pick it up in person.

you can't always blame the seller too - something 40 years old has probably been through 10 different techs at various stages needing various repairs. the seller can't be responsible for everything that has happened to it in the past - and as far as I'm concerned if it works well when we power it up, the onus is on me (a little like buying a second hand car).

this is the main reason ebay feedback is so flawed - some people EXPECT new condition regardless, and don't factor in what second hand really means. i personally think ebay prices are inflated by 20% or so, few people factor this in to the price they're prepared to pay.

and i'm not sticking up for mixmasters - but their prices are higher because they actually guarantee that what you buy will work - even if damaged in transit. you get what you pay for!

Chris

[simonstav]

Another reason for paying by paypal at least you have some recourse if there is any issues.

[Nigel99]

I don't expect any of the vintage stuff that I buy not to have problems. I'm surprised that gear I bought before I had more insight into its "intimate workings" functioned correctly at all.

Many of the ICs are well past their life expectancy and the gear is just plain old and failing due to all kinds of ware and tear. To address the OP - sure I would be upset about a damaged item or shady sale but if I recieve well packed item I still go over it for potential component shifts in transit and if something worked for a week and then died I wouldn't blame the seller. If it was a shop bought item that's different.

[Chris H]

......with respect for vintage gear it's most often the case of you pay for what you get, after the fact, and I factor this into what I'm prepared to pay for an item. I would say about half of the optro gear I have bought needed work to get it up to acceptable working standard. The seller though should give as accurate a description as possible to prospective purchasers so you know what you are purchasing.

[Senad]

Vintage stuff is understandable, to some extent. A pretty new unit, factory built like a tank that arrives almost in pieces, is not.

[HA_DA_JA]

As a buyer I have bought from people on this site and have received a vintage unit where the preamp came with rattling bits hanging off inside. I work for a large transit company and I know how they work and I can't blame the seller as I regularly see people throwing people's parcel all night long where I work.
I also have sold some stuff recently where the un named buyer used the wrong Allen key to strip the nut to adjust a neck on a $800 guitar to the way he liked it. He demanded a refund after wrecking the neck on my guitar.
I know life is too short to worry about $800 so I gave him his money back and now I have a $150 repair bill on my hands.
You have to be clear about expectations and everything you do always involves a certain amount of risk.
Just be clear about the details and always sort out with the buyer or seller a worst case scenario plan and hope for the best.
Everything does not always go to plan, but if more than 90% does, then you are pretty much ahead. Enjoy life, enjoy your stuff and enjoy each other.

[Drumstruck]

It's good insurance to take a heap of photos of the gear you're selling - the buyer can take photos to show what they received - that leaves little doubt as to the condition and where the damage occured.

e.g. 1/ I received a unit unit from a seller in england - it had clearly been dropped in transit - I took a lot of photos and emailed them to the seller - the seller is a very reputable guy and sent me some replacement parts at no cost - he also said it wasn't worth chasing compensation from the transport company for the small $s involved, so essentially he wore the cost.

e.g. 2/ I sold a drum module to a guy in melbourne - via ozpost with insurance - he claimed he didn't receive it..... the saga went on for nearly 6 months before ozpost finally paid me the insurance money - as part of the claim I had to provide original receipts for the item and argue -> complain bitterly before ozpost would pay my claim - this was for a TD-20x module worth nearly 2K!!!! Beware of insurance - if it's over 1K in value they're not at all keen to pay you the compensation you are owed.

Take photos.

[Manning]

I have bought (at a rough count) - around 30 pieces of gear over the years from various Turtlerock members (in Sydney and elsewhere), with prices ranging from $300 to $8500. I have never had to chase up delivery, or do anything other than pay and sign for my package. (OK, I did have to rent a truck for the console).

Thus far I have a 100% satisfaction rating for T-rock purchasing. (You know who you all are, and kudos to you all.) I have even lent stuff to other members, and had it returned on time and in perfect condition.

Meanwhile, I have ordered stuff in face-to-face meetings with businesses based in Sydney, and two years later I am still trying to get delivery.

[Barney Loveland]

I've had good and bad luck on both ends and i've sent and received small and large items. Including a Fender bassman 100 and matching 412 cab which was packed and delivered untouced, same company managed to bend a rack ear on a vintage pultec... A Massive Passive arrived with a bent back panel and needed some serious repair but shipping was refunded on presentation of pics which covered the repair (my time). A tightly packed box enroute didn't fair so well on the way to Proharmonic and a PSU transformer cracked a pcb also in the box.
I'd like to hear Rob's view, he must send/receive parcels all week long?

[Senad]

I work for a large transit company and I know how they work and I can't blame the seller as I regularly see people throwing people's parcel all night long where I work.

Yep, I used to be a courier, I know what goes on.
My particular unit arrived with the ps board completely loose because someone who tried to repair it, put the screws that fasten the CB to the chassis from inside the unit, FROM THE OUTSIDE BOTTOM OF THE UNIT
The screws didn't reach far enough inside to fasten anything, and even if they did, there is no thread on the CB of course, but only in the chassis.
Thankfully, Dan Kennedy is a gentleman and is sending me a brand new PS for it.
Hopefully that works (Dan reckons everything looks ok in the detailed pics apart from PS)..If not, I'll have to ship the whole thing there and back and be in for a few hundred dollars.

[Barney Loveland]

Hey Senad, I can help out putting it back together if you need a hand.

[Senad]

Thanks Barney. Looks pretty straight fwd, but will give you a shout if I get stuck.