WTB: small/medium sized format console + SOME ADVICE!

[mavdime]

Hi all,

pretty keen on adding a mixer to my setup. I tend to mix in quite a Dubby style using lots of tape echos, reverb, etc. and find trying to emulate that iTB to be quite a pain in the backside

Ideally between 16 to 24 channels... switchable aux sends, nice EQ. The quality of the EQ is probably more important to me that the mic pres since I make electronic music and while I do record with mics, it's not my daily bread and butter

I'm currently using a RME UCX as my main interface... that has 8 analog outs + adat expandability, so I may have to buy an ADAT expander to get some more channels out of my computer on to the desk (I was thinking ideally If I could get 16 channels from the computer on to the desk and my hardware synths can take up the other channels)..

I'm also open to buying a mixer with a USB or firewire multitrack (only if that can be used with thunderbolt,, since my computer doesn't have firewire ports)...

From my research it seems something like the Allen Heath ZedR16 or Midas F16/U16 would fit the bill perfectly but I am also aware that once I have the desk it might be better to have spare channels to grow with me and the studio... I can possibly get a good deal on a Toft ATB24...

anyway, would appreciate some advice from y'all who probably know the world of consoles better than I.. Also if anybody has an appropriate console for sale would love to hear from you

Cheers

Manny

[Text_Edifice]

Hi Manny,

Don't get a Toft – in my experience they've been nothing but trouble. I know there was apparently a 'bad batch' with rubbish solder but, while they sound fine when they're working, they can be very problematic to maintain.

If you just want faders and analog signal path the A+H or Midas boards are fine and very practical. They remove the need for an interface and some cabling so will be cheaper than getting more i/o + patchbays + etc. Not esoteric, but good clean solid fun.

SSL's little x-desk might fit the bill as well, but more expensive and you'll need an interface.

If you go second-hand I would strongly recommend looking for a small modular console and getting confident with a soldering iron. More recent options like neotek, DDA, D&R, audient, etc. all have a similar-ish layout and circuit (at least in terms of components). I picked up a D&R stylix 24/8/2 channel board very cheaply for home and it works and sounds great as a mixdown board.

[mavdime]

Hi Dave,

Thanks for the advice - much appreciated...

I have also been looking into the Ssl x-desk... sounds like a great console, there's currently one on eBay for $3K, but I guess with that console I also need to factor in a new interface + Db25 looms... I'll continue looking into the X-desk

I have no qualms about getting handier with the soldering irons.... thanks for the heads up about note, DDA, etc... I'll keep my eyes open for one.

Another option (on the cheaper side, and definitely not in the same league as the Ssl or Audient/DDa boards) is the new Soundcraft Signature MTK22... has a 22x24 inbuilt interface, but strangely they've left out inserts both on the individual channels and the master... which seems pretty ridiculous!

I have also seen a Soundcraft Sapphire 16/32 desk up in Qld going for a decent price ($2200)... perhaps another option to consider..

thanks again and look forward to narrowing my inquiry to a few consoles!

Cheers

Manny

[The Tasmanian]

I second what Dave suggests.
For not too much money you could get a Midas F24 or F32. These sound really nice and uncoloured, the mic pre's and EQ sounds are really useable, plus you can use firewire to get up to 32 ins and outs to your computer.
Amazing value for what you are getting for your money

Same as the Allen and Heath has nice sounding consoles that have firewire / USB.
Lots of cool routing options when the console is coming up as ins and outs on your computer
Insert character fx , outboard EQ , compression - synths in and out, all coming up in your DAW ins/outs

Great setup for dubbing stuff out and recording it all with 24-32 quality AtoD converters through transparent sounding console line amps, plus heaps of good mic pre's for future sessions.

[walding]

A couple of points, If you are going to be using outboard, the cheaper digital desks, dont really accommodate that well or at all.

the ZED whilst a handy little desk, the EQ is a tad lacking, The cheaper A&H boards like the QU series, the EQ whilst useful is not really what I'd think you're after, the GLD series is good, but more $

The midas boards are good, But if you want charactor EQ, I'd forget digital altogether.

Get an old Yammy desk, PM series or soundcraft..

PS yea stay away from toft..

Ps yea I've used all these desks

[walding]

Ps the A&H mix wizards are a very good little desks, inserts on every channels, very decent EQ and not bad at all mic pres... the older ones can be had for under a grand.

Good luck

[mavdime]

Thank you all for your advice - I have a much clearer idea now about how to go about this, so I am very grateful!

I'll keep my eyes open for the mixwizards and other desks mentioned in this thread and see what I come across...

I'm conscious of that fact that this is the for sale/hire thread, and I should probably ask this question in the normal form threads, but I do have a question about the operation of aux sends/returns.. forgive my ignorance, but is the return signal of an fx processor, captured if I record out of the buses of a desk? For example... if I had all the drum parts spread out on my desk, and then sent to Bus 3/4, and then dub out the snare drum using a tape echo on one of the aux sends, will all my hubby monkeyshines be captured if I record the signal from the Bus 3/4 outputs or are they only captured from the master output?

Thanks!

[Thirteen]

I second what Dave suggests.
For not too much money you could get a Midas F24 or F32. These sound really nice and uncoloured, the mic pre's and EQ sounds are really useable, plus you can use firewire to get up to 32 ins and outs to your computer.
Amazing value for what you are getting for your money

Same as the Allen and Heath has nice sounding consoles that have firewire / USB.
Lots of cool routing options when the console is coming up as ins and outs on your computer
Insert character fx , outboard EQ , compression - synths in and out, all coming up in your DAW ins/outs

Great setup for dubbing stuff out and recording it all with 24-32 quality AtoD converters through transparent sounding console line amps, plus heaps of good mic pre's for future sessions.

The Midas F 24 and F32 are unmatched for value for money.

[mavdime]

It seems the consensus is pretty high for the Midas boards... my only slight concern is that my mac doesn't have firewire and I have heard mixed reports about the stability of running the firewire over a thunderbolt adapter...

In any case, I suppose the desk is still wonderful value even as a normal analog board even without the firewire interfacing!

Cheers

Manny

[Ben M]

Hi Manny
I owned a Midas f32 for a while and can also vouch for them. Really good value for money.
Maybe in the near future they'll do a thunderbolt version. Who can say.

[Drumstruck]

You can run firewire over thunderbolt to connect to your mac - very stable and fast in my experience

[mavdime]

Thanks everyone for your advice! now just gotta find myself something suitable

[andre99]

Firewire over thunderbolt is also very good in my set-up.

I once had an issue where the adapter was fried. It was the last thing I checked as it was quite new. Drove me nuts for a week.

The guy at the Mac shop said it's not uncommon for them to die but they're obviously easily replaceable.

[audioio]

The guy at the Mac shop said it's not uncommon for them to die but they're obviously easily replaceable.

You'd have to wonder why. Belkin makes a powered dock thing with Thunderbolt and breakouts for FIrewire and USB. Since it's not powered by the Thunderbolt bus I wonder whether it would be more reliable.