mac do it again! and again!

[mark rachelle]

has anyone bought an HD digidesign system.

well its not that old a technology is it?

apparently for apple it is, the next computer they are about to release (quad processors) will not be able to run HD cards!

sell now people before you get caught!!!

that is appalling and justifies (to me)why i went to PC

yes i think the best mac is a little better than a rockin pc
but economic factors must be taken into consideration if ytou want to survive in the music bus and survive the racket that is high end computer recording!

[Kris]

Of course there is the question..... why do you HAVE TO upgrade? Seriously, a fully loaded G5 is a killer machine. Even a Dual G4 is great.

If it ain't broke.....

[JulienG]

that is appalling and justifies (to me)why i went to PC

These would be the PC's which have been shipping with PCIe for over a year now? True most still have some old PCI slots, but this has been coming for a long time, and as Kris said will you really transplant an existing HD system in to a new PC?

I have a B&W G3 here running an old digidesign card simply because no G5's support it, do I think it sucks yes, do you see me bitching that a card from 1997 doesn't work in a Mac from mid-2003, no.

[mark rachelle]

come on guys

1997 wasn't that long ago

my ssl was 1985 and its still worth something

yes if it aint broke don't fix it

but just watch how we are getting suckered in

soon you'll want to run protools version 8 on the new computer
but of course it won't be compatible with the old computer or hardware

i'm all for the advancement of technology but once again the consumer gets dicked. there are very clever accounting people at these companies whose sole job it is is to keep us forking out money.

maybe we consumers should ask for help in slowing down the computer boom, whereby its sustainable for the average proffessional musician.

i tell you now, they can do amazing things but economically i think a car might be a better investment.

[Martinez]

The Sydney funnel is actualy the world wide funnel!

Mark is right on the money!

[JulienG]

my ssl was 1985 and its still worth something

Yes, but could you buy a studio compter meant for a 9000J and have it work with your SSL, that's pretty much what your asking. There are PCIe->PCI chassis out there so it's really not the problem you're making out (Especially given that for anything above 3 cards digidesign are saying get a PCIe->PCI chassis and use that)

[anj]

Im with you too mark,these computers are changining the recording industry in a big way. In the not too distant future analog desks,tape machines and outboard gear will be history and all the bigger studios will be out of business.

Big statement but fact.[/quote][/u][/i][/list]

[heathen]

Analog gone forever ?I think not,more people are turning back to analog gear after a couple of dissapointing years using plugins.I like some plugs,actually love a select few,but keep going for my analog gear always.
I recently helped a mate with decisions on a new windows 64 bit system,it is a beast. Quad core,really there is not much point as mentioned unless liquid cooling becomes the norm,more processing power more noise. Mac tech support is hopeless,so ive heard.When a pc dies on me it's working usually again the next day.
What plugins and software platforms are people using here,out of interest?I like Sequoia and Nuendo and for plugs,Sonalksis,a few of the waves,Tc works is sort of ok for me,can't stand the urs eq's though some people rave about them.I've heard the UAD stuff is great.but hav'nt tried them.

[Kris]

Fact? Based on what information?

Sorry, but the big console is not going anywhere. It may not be as widespread as it used to be but it will never go away completely. There will always be people with budgets big enough to spend on a traditional mix through a large format console. If not the music business then most certainly film.

That's a pretty sweeping generalisation to make with no evidence to back you up.

[David W]

[quote]What plugins and software platforms are people using here,out of interest?I like Sequoia and Nuendo and for plugs,Sonalksis,a few of the waves,Tc works is sort of ok for me,can't stand the urs eq's though some people rave about them.I've heard the UAD stuff is great.but hav'nt tried them.[/quote]

I'm running a Pro Tools HD2 and recently bought a UAD-1 card.
UAD-1 compressors (farchild, 1176LN, L2) are all incredible and nothing I have compared came close.
If running 6.4 and above have delay compensation activated.
Apparently not compatible with come G5's.

[JustinS]

Don't freak guys... the world isn't ending... Digidesign put out a press release just after Apple announced the new dual core G5's that they are soon to have out compatible PCI Express HD cards.

So if you have a current G5 with a HD system are you going to be suddenly out of date?? No! If you are buying a new G5 will Digidesing support your new hardware, yes...

Justin.

Ohh yeah, and if you really must have a new dual core G5 and you don't want to throw away your PCI cards - Magma have a PCI Express to PCI expansion chassis coming out

http://www.mobl.com/expansion/products/pcie_expansion/6slot/index.html

[Chris H]

Well, i'm getting the G5 quad. Good news for native based options. Getting pretty close to Pro tools in performance and as i work mainly with Logic, i think i will be quite chuffed. As for the analogue dead scenario, not in a hurry.
Big studios closing,..... little, very well equipped studios opening up every second day.....nice older (redundant, ha ha,) consoles moving out of these now closed commercial facilities into the smaller ones.The trouble i see is if these new smaller studios want to go full time commercial then the law of supply and demand means most will not survive commercially. Those that do will be based around an artist or label,or be one slice of the income stream for a successful musician who earns money from CD sales etc.
So i think its a great time in audio with great options, analogue and digital, avaiable to virtually anyone serious about persuing good quality recording. (think i'm having an optomistic day today)

[anj]

the evidence is that many of the bigger studios are closing down, computers are getting more and more powerfull and plugins are getting better...u can have like 9 1176 for under 2 grand(ua card) and they sound pretty decent.
Yeah there will probably still be some analog studios, but the way things are going now there wont be many at all.
ITB mixes are sounding better and better......and i hate computers, i love my tape machine, desk and outboard, i love the sound of it but it aint as flexible as doing a mix in the box(which is the only thing thats good about computers).
The general public and most bands realy dont care if its digital or analog, everyones ears a quite conditioned to digital now.....unfortunately this is the evolution of recording, not a good thing in my books.

Anyway thats my slant hopefully im wrong but I dont think so.

[wez]

"the evidence is that many of the bigger studios are closing down, computers are getting more and more powerfull and plugins are getting better...u can have like 9 1176 for under 2 grand(ua card) and they sound pretty decent. "

"pretty decent" doesn't cut it where i live, at any price.

there are lots of reasons why big studios close down. but i'd like to think that running an SSL/Neve, 2" and a rack of vintage analogue goodness actually KEEPS such studios in business longer, rather than bringing them down. i know the market for quality product is diminishing, but it's still out there somewhere, right? yes?

anyway, i've never understood economics, if i did i would never have even bothered getting into this business.

"computers are getting more and more powerful" ??? no, computer companies are getting more and more powerful.

[Martinez]

I don't think that anolog is going anywhere in a hurry.

digital buy its self dosen't sound that great.

good anolog sounds really great.

people still want that anolog sound but it is usually very expensive.
companies like Mackie are starting to build products that are fairly good for the money and have firewire capabilities.

now why bother if the evidence points to anolog dying soon?
because thats not what the evidence points to!

We are heading for a best of both worlds senario,
the sound of anolog with the flexability of computers full stop.

thats also why more and more companies are building the clone devices of yesteryear.

[Linear]

Hmm. People who use computers to make music should get used to it - computers to me are transient and fleeting. In fact, the word 'computer' and 'longevity' should never, ever be mentioned in the same sentence.

I just wished that the people that are making protools (and the associated proprietry hardware) the new 'standard' by continually upgrading an inherently flawed product would stop whining about it. It's like shooting yourself in the foot while digging your own grave and cutting off your own nose to spite your face.

i also opinionatedly think it's almost laughable how everybody hangs off digidesigns every word for what they're going to do next and whether they're going to be 'kind' enough to give someone a patch so the six-month old hardware works with a 'new and improved' version of software. it's a recipe for disaster as they're developing into an unchecked monopoly for those who subscribe to recording the digidesign way.

I crap on about it all the time, but the thing I love about tape is that nobody ever owned the format, it was just out there as public domain. take a tape recorded on a studer, play it on an ampex or MCI and bob's your uncle. once the industry standard was established, there was no need for a format upgrade path. sure the machines improved over time, as did the tape formulation but the format was the same - true backwards compatability.

there's so much i disagree with in this thread i don't know where to start, so i wont.

Chris

[Martin]

interesting points linear... have to share some experiences from today AND i have to jump in and say that while i do keep relatively up to date with the computers and protools updates etc, i find that as long as the system is working properly with no bugs i get STACKS of work done... the grand piano i recorded today with the portable system (imac, mbox, toosl 6.4, 2 x avalons, 2 x valve mics) session got finished saved, and networked 8 rooms up the corridor and had finished copying before i could get back to the studio. Then fired up the main system and mixed it on the monitors...

while getting the system to work as it should can cause heartache, the session today was fired up, mics set and tools record ready within 10 minutes... no time wasted, and quick to get down to the business or recording some good music, could i have wheeled the tape machine down? yep, but it would have taken a whole lot longer, time i'm not getting paid for...

i could have spent the time reading up on upcoming updates and patches, how the mbox 2 is sonically superior.... but i recorded some great ballet music instead! opera house here we come...

also the demo i did for a uni student friend of mine for free (no tape costs!) got her into the final round of a singing competition with a prize total of about $25grand.... should she win she agreed she'd spend a few recording a proper album with me

so yeah, i love computers! as long as digidesigns products do what they say on the box, i don't mind them either... it hasn't progressed to love there.... yet!

[Adam Dempsey]

Well I'm off to photograph the best of both worlds this morning for their website: 6' piano, vintage mics, Fairchild 663 comps, large console, EMT plate, 24 trk 2 inch, PT HD, Studer 2-track and Sony 2402 2-track DASH!
So, yeah, it's surviving well, but based on the service and getting the sounds in the first place, not s'ware versions.

As much as we love to drool over gear, this is a service industry. A lot can be done with a little. I'd mastered many albums early on with nothing more than a graphic EQ (albeit very broad-band & musical sounding) and a (now very redundant) editing system that depreciated $70k in 5 yrs and then had zero customer support. For that reason we moved on. Again, it's service that makes the difference.

(hope that's all somewhat relevant.. still waking up)

[rick]

its no secret where i stand on the subject of computers, but as a interesting side point i was having a whinge to a guy a dinner party one night (who turned out to be the australiasian head of apple marketing.)

rick " but apple keep changing the slots on the boards and messing up the things we have bought making them and the computers worthless"

stranger at dinner "umm i have the figure in my breifcase for the percentage of macs sold for professional music use..... 3 %...."

thats why it seems they dont give a toss.

as for digidesigns part it all this . well
they are either evil incarnate or geniuses ...
either way at least the twits are consistant

[Martin]

too true, you don't hear the graphics boys and girls complaining, i'm sure the new compatability that the new standards bring with them like the spanking new 2504gig 5000mhz graphics cards to run the 40" screens to make the billboards for the new x-class mercedes benz that the execs drive to the studio in to err..... record music?

meanwhile i saw a karaoke book last night that had Nikki Webster songs in it, what is the world coming too... and YES a girl did get up and sing strawberry kisses... i almost fell off my chair

[Martinez]

Where's My gun!

[Chris H]

as for digidesigns part it all this . well
they are either evil incarnate or geniuses ...

I think the answer is both, evil incarnate AND geniuses ...

When i encounted the fact that pro tools light or Free or whatever it was back then would not read sympte and you had to fork out big bucks when you wanted to get that serious.......???????? i knew it wasnt for me.
And the whole pitch of " it's the (de-facto) standard so use it or be excluded from pro audio " should be rejected by any and everyone who loves music production.
There are obvious commercial ($$$) reasons why Digi do things the way they do and some say there time is running out.
Ok it is a great product, use it if you want, but they play the commercial games of planned obsolescence, etc, etc so don't be ignorant of the consequences when you row the Digi boat..... Bigger $ outlay, bigger depreciation on your profit and loss statement, less profit, less tax.
Less tax....there, its not all bad is it.

[heathen]

I wish Mackie would release a version of the os from the hdr 24/96 on pc and mac,it's the most stable machice i've ever used and could be applied to other computers easily.The GUI is basic to use.They could just make it the same though with plugin support and midi capabilities the same as every other software platform around these days.I'd pay a grand or so for it. I looked at Mackie Tracktion and it was a bit of a joke to me.
Also the way Mackie ran a similar forum to this 1 was great for support,if troubles were encountered people would usually post a fix or diagnosis or tech support in a matter of minutes sometimes.
I'm just about to post this to Mackie as well.

[Stephen C]

I was surprised to see a table full of Digidesign RT Remote controls, (3x) 882 Audio interfaces, VSD Sync boxes go for $150 the whole lot at the ABC auction today! Kind of difficult to legally find all the right bits of software to run this stuff now though! And a computer that has the right ports etc, to run it. (another practical example)

[Henry]

A bit off topic but why use Protools at all?

Samplitude 9 Crossgrade is only $599 usd and has absolutely the best convo reverb, convo compression, fft eq, cd/dvd authoring, best sounding audio, udpdated midi/vst/dx, unlimited tracks etc etc the list goes on and it's all standard. Protools doesn't even have track freeze or mp3 import, and that's probably because they want you to keep buying the accell cards and extra for codecs!!

The money you save can go to 'real' high end converters or preamps or Duende etc.

Fill you pc with Ram and your away laughing, Protools is a trap!

[Howard Jones]

A client of mine has recently purchased a Pyramix system with Studer front end. Previously a long time Pro Tools user, he has been staggered in retrospect to realise how poor Pro Tools sounds. He made particular comment on how PT seems to collapse the sound stage compared to Pyramix.

How come I never see any discussions in this forum about the sound of Pro Tools?

[Peter Knight]

How come I never see any discussions in this forum about the sound of Pro Tools?

Topics would get locked because of all the fights that would start!

All those arguments have taken place ad infinitum on other boards anyway.

How about discussions on mixing? We actually see precious few discussions about that these days... Well maybe it's all been summed up in the Slipperman Distorted Guitars Thread.

[Kris]

I think if we can do it objectively and not emotionally then it's a great idea. I have heard the pyramix/studer combo is something quite amazing. Howard, if you could post any info you have I would appreciate it.

[Howard Jones]

Give me a few days. I will start a new thread for this.

[Henry]

I should have mentioned this before.

For ppl like me who have 50 odd songs on PTLE and now M-Powered PT there is a new adat interface, 32 inputs and 36 outs. With say, an Aurora 8 and a UAD1 card, you can sorta get a hybrid HD System for very very cheap.

http://www.m-audio.com/products/en_us/P ... -main.html