Cracked software?

[heathen]

Lame argument Hybrid88 (with no name).

Everyone here works hard at whatever job they have, supporting families in most cases, and you come in bitching about the price of sub $1,500 software. Give me a break. If you're so strapped for cash, dob your cracker mate in and pick up some reward money.

I don't think you get the point, for a hobbyist (obviously not you) software IS expensive, paying $200 to $500 for a CD worth nothing is lame, not the argument...

This is going nowhere, everyone here obviuosly earns way more than I do, forget I said anything - I'll just go earn that dough...

The thing is I bet your mate has every crack under the sun, right? I don't see anything wrong with using say his system for evaluating the illegal warez he has, though not everyone will agree, anyway you'll more than likely realise you don't need that many plugs.

The PSP plugs are quite cheap and they are some of the better ones out there, a couple of good eq's and comps, maybe a limiter, some fx and a couple of synths would probably be about a grand. It's not that much these days. Geez you could probably even get a "korg triton" for a grand and it will still fetch a grand in 2 years.

It's not even a fact of someone earning way more than another, it's where your priorities lie which will be the deciding factor.

Anyway I wan't a GML eq, but I aint getting one cause I can't afford it.

[13thbeach]

Buy hardware is my only answer, will still be worth something in 5 years.

_________________
Heath Thorpe

depending on what you buy, it could actually gain in value.

[musikwerks]

"a cd that is worth nothing..."

And therein lies the problem. You don't actually value the product. You have no concept of the value of the tools. It's people like you, probably Gen-Y, that are slowly destroying our industry. How can the CD software be worth "nothing" when it gives you hours, days, years of music creation? You'd easily go a spend $20 bucks at the movies for 2 hours worth of distraction and walk away with nothing to show for it. This software your "mate" is stealing can end up making you money if you're diligent and apply yourself.

Even if you're a "poor" student most software comes with substantial Academic pricing discounts. I'm sorry, but your position is just too weak to take you seriously.

[ChrisW]

I don't think you get the point, for a hobbyist (obviously not you) software IS expensive, paying $200 to $500 for a CD worth nothing is lame, not the argument...

I think the point is some of regard free and very cheap software (under $100) to be very good, and certainly adequate for a hobbyist.
I also get the point that you haven't done anything wrong and this is just chat etc....
But whether you are a hobbyist or not, you should still do the right thing.
If a hobbyist model plane maker shoplifted a bunch of models and had a better collection than you would you be tempted to do likewise?

I'll say it again, most of us were hobbyists in the beginning, and many of us were broke when we first started out in music.
I think we made do with what we had by and large.
So to claim things are different for hobbyists now would be untrue, except when trying to excuse thieving.

[wez]

Hello Mr Hybrid

I think you'll find just about everyone on this board falls into one (or more) of the following categories

A) 70-80% make between $nothing and $almost nothing from music/audio
B) subsidise their "hobby" with a non-music/audio day job
c) have gone into serious and significant debt to do what they want to do
d) only a handful make their sole income from the music/sound business

it's a hard business to be in. global financial crisis? we've been having our own financial crisis for the last 15-20 years - what's new.

I found it hard setting up a hardware based studio when everyone was saving money by using software. the fact that many of them were saving even more money by not paying at all was certainly annoying, but ultimately you have to just do whatever is right for you. feeling envious of their relaxed attitude to piracy and lower debt level is not a great use of my energy. just get on and do what you need to do.

you ask if you should 'go cracked' because you're not making any money from your hobby. many of us are not making money from our profession.

"i've tried to do it legit but it just isn't working". yeah me too. what are we going to do Mr Hybrid, what are we going to do?

[walding]

I just couldn't sleep at night knowing I charge money from using something STOLEN.

I have clients ask me about it from time to time and I can look them straight in the eye and tell them I couldn't charge them if I didn't OWN the software.

I have a good friend who was kinda bragging about having a cracked version of the waves mercury package (worth 14k) and I kinda lost some respect for him.

I think it shows the kind of ethics one has in a way.

My five cents

[Thirteen]

Lame argument Hybrid88 (with no name).

Everyone here works hard at whatever job they have, supporting families in most cases, and you come in bitching about the price of sub $1,500 software. Give me a break. If you're so strapped for cash, dob your cracker mate in and pick up some reward money.

I don't think you get the point, for a hobbyist (obviously not you) software IS expensive, paying $200 to $500 for a CD worth nothing is lame, not the argument...

This is going nowhere, everyone here obviuosly earns way more than I do, forget I said anything - I'll just go earn that dough...

You call yourself a producer, and then say that a CD with a software application is worthless. Do you understand that by extension that a CD of your music is also then worthless, and you should not expect anyone to pay for it? It would seem that your worst enemy is people just like yourself if you ever intend to make a living as a producer. If you think that other people's work has no value, then don't be surprised if they treat you the same way.

[Hybrid88]

"a cd that is worth nothing..."

And therein lies the problem. You don't actually value the product. You have no concept of the value of the tools. It's people like you, probably Gen-Y, that are slowly destroying our industry. How can the CD software be worth "nothing" when it gives you hours, days, years of music creation? You'd easily go a spend $20 bucks at the movies for 2 hours worth of distraction and walk away with nothing to show for it. This software your "mate" is stealing can end up making you money if you're diligent and apply yourself.

Even if you're a "poor" student most software comes with substantial Academic pricing discounts. I'm sorry, but your position is just too weak to take you seriously.

I don't see how I'm destroying the industry if I'm not even a part of it, I've never used cracked software and probably never will. But what I meant was not that the CD doesn't have value, of course it represents all the work the software manufacturers have put into it, but as far as resale value goes, once you've used it for a couple of years it's then worth sweet FA, not so in the hardware world. I'm actually agreeing with all of you, I just don't think it is entirely fair to people like me spending big bucks on a bugged up second-hand version of Reaktor, while other people are making music with all the best tools thats all (yeah I know illegal...).

[musikwerks]

Hybrid, you don't get it. When you purchase a new car and drive it off the lot it drops in value by around 20%... and that's within the time it takes you to sign the papers, hop in and get home. Over the next 5 years it will de-value to around 25% of it's original purchase price. That's just the way of things. You don't buy Pro Tools today thhinking it will be worth more when you're "finished with it" as you say, in a few years. What kind of retarded logic is that??? Cracked software costs the industry untold amounts of money not only in lost sales to the vendors but out of the pockets of legitimate buyers who then have to fork out even more dough to cover the manufacturer's anti-piracy programs.

If you're so upset with how software holds its value (or doesn't) then go and buy a hardware synth or recorder or reverb and quit your whinging. If you're making excuses that you can't make music without all those plug ins then I would seriously doubt your abilities as a musician.

You need to think long and hard about why you're even on this forum. If you're not serious about music and making it then, personally, I would suggest you find somewhere else to hang out.

[heathen]

I think he gets it Kris, life is a money pit of no return. I don't like buggy software either and I'll agree there, but if you want to use a product you should pay, that's been established, there's really not much more to say about it.

Anyway if you need to ask any serious questions here on the forum there are plenty of people willing to help I'm sure. Some great hardware can be bought for a few hundred bucks these days, but yeah converters then cables then patchbays etc...... ummmm yeah it's an expensive hobby.

You may even get a 2nd hand software bundle dirt cheap if you ask around.

[Thirteen]

I just don't think it is entirely fair to people like me spending big bucks on a bugged up second-hand version of Reaktor, while other people are making music with all the best tools thats all (yeah I know illegal...).

This says it all.

[HA_DA_JA]

+1 for not hanging around here if you are going to winge about the legalities of cracked software.
Lets go one step further and say "..it's not fair that mummy and daddy wont fork out any more money on my hobby.."

[wez]

I just don't think it is entirely fair to people like me spending big bucks on a bugged up second-hand version of Reaktor, while other people are making music with all the best tools thats all (yeah I know illegal...).

No, it's not fair. Couldn't agree with you more.

Get over it and move on.

[Thirteen]

I don't see how I'm destroying the industry if I'm not even a part of it

Stealing from an industry damages the industry.

[13thbeach]

Hey Hybrid88,

I don't really know what your hoping to achieve here. At the end of the day your going to do what your going to do, wether its right or wrong. People here on TR are going to say what they are going to say, wether
they agree with you or not. If you were looking for opinions about this hot topic, well I think you got it. So go and do what ever it is your going to do and let that be it.

....Ok now where are those iced vovo's I was eyeing off earlier.

[HA_DA_JA]

Iced Volvo and a cup of coffee goes down very well.
You know grinding your own beans (a whole process that is worth its own thread) and creating the perfect flat white with no sugar and enjoying the aroma of the coffee, then the cleaning of the machine and finally sitting and drinking the coffee can be just as satisfying as capturing the perfect take.
It can certainly top off a perfect day.

[ChrisW]

The irony for me is that the software (supposedly crap and buggy) costs anything from free to $1000 at the lower end.
Most half decent hardware, even used, starts around $1000.
Software is easily the cheapest way to get great sounds (although my studio is 80% hardware).
So it seems to me a bit of a vicious circle for the industry.
You make software very cheap, and people then start expecting it for free.

[Chris H]

Well i think we can go a bit easy on Hybrid88. He is new to the forum, and started off with a controversial topic. Maybe he is testing the water so to speak. There would be plenty who would just use crack and shut up about it. Back in OS 9 days i had some cracks of the waves ren plugs for a while, then thought better of it, and decided to stay in analogue as that is how i was set up. Like 88, i was cash strapped and Pro digital was too expensive for me and i found great deals on enough analogue to get me a good set up. I think Logic only really got to the stage of being good enough about the time space design was a part of the package. The current crop of comp plugs with logic while good at dynamic control have no "character" like the PSP and sonalksis options. Some freeware is available to get more "flavorsome options. If you are not on an intel mac then the SSL desk comp is a real favorite of mine. North Pole is still free and is great to experiment with. But actually 88 i would like you to hang around as we need new perspectives and it might just help us from becoming just another group of grumpy old bastards...( speaking for myself mainly) :)...
Any how i will throw in another angle . Make it work for you. The limitations can be you greatest window of opportunity. While every one is busily... often blindly, doing what everyone else is doing, using the same plug ins and software that you "have " to have to get "professional" results, you are limited to the options you can afford. You make do with them, find new unusual work arounds and as you go your own way, every one else is lost and indistinguishable in sameness and you have developed a unique signature sound, but have the versatility to adapt to the song rather than the song conforming to the sameness of the professional must have well trod path.
While every one was buying their must have pro tools system and recording locked to the grid with 12 mics on the kit etc, in my "ignorance i was recording to an 8 trk half inch Otari MX 5050 with 3 or 4 mics on the kit. I thought i was way behind the 8 ball. Looking back i learnt way more then than i ever realized at the time.
How about a few of these plug ins.... op shop specials! :)

[Aearth]

I just spent $1000 on audio software upgrades that's right upgrades only and I'm cool about it. CRACKs ARE WRONG.


nIC

[ChrisW]

I think Logic only really got to the stage of being good enough about the time space design was a part of the package.

A lot of huge dance records were recorded on Atari with Notator.
I used logic for film & tv back when there were no included plug-ins. I had a Lexicon Alex for reverb.
Regarding the merit of software like Logic, you've got to say a bad workman blames his tools.
I agree about easing up on '88' though.
At least he has the guts to say what he thinks, even though he hasn't used cracked software (and I hope never will).

[Chris H]

Agree with you re the atari -notator -logic for midi...my world is so dominated by audio, the midi/sequencing side of things definitely takes a back seat rather than the drivers seat.

[Gian]

I like Iced Vovos.

I came to Australia at the age of 3 and the people we stayed with until my parents found a place to rent gave us (amongst other things) iced vovos.

It brings back good memories.

With regard to stealing - we shouldn't steel anything. It's just plain wrong and "some" people will only get this when the music they produce/create is stolen. Then will they appreciate the importance of not stealing.

[Hybrid88]

Wow, the amount of assumption and predudice on this forum is truly remarkable, firstly I want you all to understand I DO NOT USE CRACKED PLUGS AND INTEND NOT TO. Right, I was only voicing a concern that had recently become noticable to me THAT IS ALL. I have bought ALL of my software.

...If you're so upset with how software holds its value (or doesn't) then go and buy a hardware synth or recorder or reverb and quit your whinging. If you're making excuses that you can't make music without all those plug ins then I would seriously doubt your abilities as a musician.

You need to think long and hard about why you're even on this forum. If you're not serious about music and making it then, personally, I would suggest you find somewhere else to hang out.

Actually I do use hardware quite a bit, amazing how you've only just met me and you not only think you know how serious I am as a musician but also my abilities as a producer...

Let me re-iterate once again so we are all clear, my point was to use a recent example of which I thought the OP's topic was relevant, if that is not a legitimate reason to post, then sorry.

I GET CRACKED SOFTWARE IS WRONG, I JUST HATE HOW EASY IT IS TO GET AND HOW MUCH IT GETS USED. I LOVE USING SOFTWARE AND THIS IS A CONCERN TO ME IN LIGHT OF WHAT I HAD DISCOVERED MY MATE DOING.

I'm truly sorry if this offended, no need for a bashing.


PS; Steve, I didn't mean software was worthless, of course it takes a lot of time and money to produce and that is reflected in the quality of the plug, you (and others) have got the wrong end of the stick with me on this. Oh, and I do buy CD's when I can too. :)

[tweakeasy]

Iced Volvo and a cup of coffee goes down very well.
You know grinding your own beans (a whole process that is worth its own thread) and creating the perfect flat white with no sugar and enjoying the aroma of the coffee, then the cleaning of the machine and finally sitting and drinking the coffee can be just as satisfying as capturing the perfect take.
It can certainly top off a perfect day.

+1 Iced Vovos!

Was "Volvo" a typo or is that your pet name for them? 'Cause I used to call them that too... haha

The eating of one was also combined with a little song: "Iced, Iced Volvo... ksht doot do do doot, do do dooo..." ("ksht" is my snare, might need to roll a bit off the top-end)

+1 for paying for software and +1 for chilling on Hybrid, I don't think he had bad intentions behind what he said, plus we all say stupid things sometimes and get misinterpreted too.

Also I was here for a week or so before I noticed the post re putting your name in your sig, I immediately did so and was totally cool with it but coming from a million other (less down-to-earth, "cosy") forums that don't require this, you can't be expected to know intuitively. I would like to suggest including this rule in the activation email upon registering, that way it's clear from the start.

Also, can we PLEASE have the language set to AUSTRALIAN spelling? Color... Aluminum... Those should have little red dots under them 'cause they ain't right! :)

[13thbeach]

Ok, now that we have all kissed and made up......................FREE ICED VOLVOS FOR EVERYONE!!!!, And everyone (who uses legit software) is invited over my place for milk and cookies!

[tweakeasy]

Ok, now that we have all kissed and made up......................FREE ICED VOLVOS FOR EVERYONE!!!!, And everyone (who uses legit software) is invited over my place for milk and cookies!

Damnit! Raincheck on milk and cookies? My car's not up to a roadtrip like that at the moment... :(

Need to get me a nice reliable Vovo.

[HA_DA_JA]

Maybe I could send Hybrid88 a piece of free gear. DO you mainly record electronic music or do you do some live stuff recording as well? What instruments do you record a lot of and what sort of hardware do you have? I think I have an Shure muc lying around I could donate to a good home - how about that for a peace offering from us oldies?
Let me know what you think?
Cheers

[Thirteen]

Wow, the amount of assumption and predudice on this forum is truly remarkable, firstly I want you all to understand I DO NOT USE CRACKED PLUGS AND INTEND NOT TO. Right, I was only voicing a concern that had recently become noticable to me THAT IS ALL. I have bought ALL of my software.

...If you're so upset with how software holds its value (or doesn't) then go and buy a hardware synth or recorder or reverb and quit your whinging. If you're making excuses that you can't make music without all those plug ins then I would seriously doubt your abilities as a musician.

You need to think long and hard about why you're even on this forum. If you're not serious about music and making it then, personally, I would suggest you find somewhere else to hang out.

Actually I do use hardware quite a bit, amazing how you've only just met me and you not only think you know how serious I am as a musician but also my abilities as a producer...

Let me re-iterate once again so we are all clear, my point was to use a recent example of which I thought the OP's topic was relevant, if that is not a legitimate reason to post, then sorry.

I GET CRACKED SOFTWARE IS WRONG, I JUST HATE HOW EASY IT IS TO GET AND HOW MUCH IT GETS USED. I LOVE USING SOFTWARE AND THIS IS A CONCERN TO ME IN LIGHT OF WHAT I HAD DISCOVERED MY MATE DOING.

I'm truly sorry if this offended, no need for a bashing.


PS; Steve, I didn't mean software was worthless, of course it takes a lot of time and money to produce and that is reflected in the quality of the plug, you (and others) have got the wrong end of the stick with me on this. Oh, and I do buy CD's when I can too. :)

OK, then lets start again, first, put your name in your signature, because no one here is anonymous, and it makes things feel more real if we know who we are talking to. Then, in answer to your earlier post, when you asked should you get cracked software because you aren't a professional, the answer that you will get on a forum like this is no. I don't understand though, in your first post you said that you were an electronic music producer, and then later you said that you are not in the industry, and so if you did steal software then it would not hurt the software industry. So your posts are a little bit confusing. So, just to be clear, software piracy is not OK, nor is music piracy. The definition of stupid and ironic is a musician who records an album using stolen software, and then bleats that he or she is not making a living because everyone copies their album and doesn't pay for it.

BTW, welcome to the forum, it is not Gearslutz, and don't forget to add that signature. It is worth putting your name to your posts, reading some of the older threads to get a feel for the forum, and then joining in, because there is a lot of help to be had here for an Aussie musician or engineer, it is a nice community.

[Aearth]

Seems innocent enough but this guy is still promoting cracks on eBay. What chance has any new person coming into the audio profession got. To me this add is saying it's alright.

nIC


http://cgi.ebay.com.au/Mbox-2-Pro-Tools ... 7C294%3A50

[Chris H]

niC.........Special Member of the Crack Investigation Squad!!!!!