2 mix recorders

by **Ben M** » Fri Jun 19, 2009 11:21 am

Hi turtlerockers

I'm after some advice.
I'm thinking of purchasing a Alesis Masterlink ML9600 recorder for mixing direct too.
I mix from protools > DDA DMR12 console > Ta@#$% CD recorder. I'm not happy with the final device so I'm looking to change up.
Does anyone use the Alesis? Can you give me a short critic on it?
If not, does anyone have some suggestions for a final 2 mix recorder. Budget is flexiblish.

cheers

by **Thirteen** » Fri Jun 19, 2009 11:37 am

Korg MR-1000, or the new rack mount version? Probably the best sounding 2 channel recorder on the market, all formats up to DSD.

by **NYMo** » Fri Jun 19, 2009 2:21 pm

hi there,

I second Steve on one of the Korg units...I use the MR1000.
(masterlink sounds like sh*t !)

I would most probably go the 2000 if you can afford it, but the 1000
is still good (mic pres not so good !)

I only use line anyway !

Cheers
N
Y
M
O

by **Milo** » Fri Jun 19, 2009 2:53 pm

Masterlink has been great for me for several years now. It depends what you want the recorder to do. I go digital in-digital out, so if you convert to dig before the recorder in, there's no problem with sound quality. Basic editing & DSP, shifting, splitting of tracks, changing track order, etc are features I use regularly, and are very handy. And in deference to the MR, you can burn a 24-bit disc if you want, too.

by **Ben M** » Fri Jun 19, 2009 3:39 pm

Thanks for the replies so far guys. The korg research is underway. I assume you just connect it to your computer to burn mixes on your computers drive?
I give bands cd's to take away directly after sessions. Having this onboard with the Alesis does attract me to it. What's your favoured way of getting to CD from the MR1000. And what's the software like, etc...?

John - I will be using the balanced inputs, as my current recorder is hard patched/normalled to the consoles output. Do you recommend using external A/D D/A converters because of sound quality?
I had some trustworthy ears tell me that Alesis really got the sound of the converters down with the Masterlink. He was surprised too. And I haven't played with one.
Can you see it being a decent recorder for my balanced analog input scenario?

all the best

by **NYMo** » Fri Jun 19, 2009 4:02 pm

Hi there,

Ben...no the line inputs ARE balanced on the Korg..no need for extra a/d.

Don't forget the Korg can record DSD at up to 5.6 mhz (thats megahertz not kilo hz !)
or any PCM sample rate to 192 khz

In the near future, all daws will record to DSD..PCM will be dead...therein
lies the Masterlink ;-)

Audiogate software interfaces via USB with the Korg and your computer sees the Korg as another USB HD.
Just drag the files to your HD.
If you want to burn a CD you will obviously have to convert to 16/44.1...the Audiogate software will
export at that sample and bit rate...then drag into cd burning software.

Check GS for the kudos !

Hope that helps.

cheers
N
Y
M
O

by **Milo** » Fri Jun 19, 2009 4:05 pm

Hi, Ben;

I'm surprised, too, that the Masterlink converters are rubbished so much: they're not that bad. The reason I use external AD (Grace Design) is because I record classical music, and it requires pretty transparent conversion for best results, so I don't skimp on it.
Its no problem as a recorder for your setup with analogue ins, and I think the advantages outweigh the disadvantages some people think it has: If I want to warm up some mixes, I sometimes go through my Neve summing mixer then to the analogue ins, and the result is pretty close to what I'm after. I have compared it to my HHB 882 burner (via analogue), and the two are pretty close (though I have to compare final CD sounds in another CD player, as the HHB audio (not recording) is a little sharp for my taste.

by **Ben M** » Sat Jun 20, 2009 8:48 am

Thanks for the advice guys. The Korg is future ready as they say.

Any other 2 track recorders worth having a look at? Anyone??

cheers

by **rob** » Sat Jun 20, 2009 9:48 am

I've got a nice Revox A77 here!

by **mfdu** » Sat Jun 20, 2009 9:56 am

yeah, i was holding off mentioning my 2bus - 1/4" RMG 911 rnning at 15ips.

but since Rob piped up, i figured i'd toss my cookies into the barrel (can i say that?!?)

hey - it's only a Ta@#$% 32, but compared to any other 2bus system i've used here the 1/4" tape beats the pants off the lot.

if you want future ready, non-PCM based, then try the new solution - analogue.

rock.

chris.

by **TimS** » Sat Jun 20, 2009 10:12 am

mfdu wrote:but since Rob piped up, i figured i'd toss my cookies into the barrel (can i say that?!?)

chris.

they must be iced vovo's tho Chris ;-) (from the other thread)

by **Ben M** » Sat Jun 20, 2009 10:17 am

Would love nothing more than buying a 1/2 " machine to mix to. It's all a matter of what's in the bands budget. Most bands I work with lately are scrapping together the session fees not to mention spending money on reels of tape. Oh tape my old friend!

Ta

by **mfdu** » Sat Jun 20, 2009 10:43 am

1/2" would be ideal, yes. but 1/4" still cuts the cheese. and i can get RMG pancake for (IIRC) under $30 a reel.

c.

by **jkhuri44** » Sat Jun 20, 2009 11:17 am

i hope this doesnt act like a derailment of the thread....

but this has got me interested...

using such a system as the MR1000....you would take the audio from your desks analog outs (master buss)

and plug into the line inputs on this thing and use the conversion onboard to have your digital bounce?? are you guys using the korg at 24 bit, etc...or 1bit DSD for your bouncedowns??

by **Ben M** » Sat Jun 20, 2009 12:38 pm

Good question - How often are you using the DSD 1 bit format??

by **NYMo** » Sat Jun 20, 2009 1:01 pm

Hi there,

I only use 1 bit 5.6 mhz ...thats the best quality for the original source !

Then I just use the Audiogate software to convert it to any format I want.
Currently I am then *mastering* at 88.2khz and then a BTD.

So, for me its Console out ->MR1000->DAW via USB->BTD.

I archive the DSD files so they are ready when PT vers 10 uses DSD ;-)

BTW I also have Eric Claptons Ampex AG440b 1/4-1/2in here but the last repair person *borrowed*
the input transformers !

A lot of people say the Korg sounds as good as 1/2 tape..and well..thats good enough for me to use !

Cheers
N
Y
M
O

by **Thirteen** » Sat Jun 20, 2009 5:34 pm

jkhuri44 wrote:i hope this doesnt act like a derailment of the thread....

but this has got me interested...

using such a system as the MR1000....you would take the audio from your desks analog outs (master buss)

and plug into the line inputs on this thing and use the conversion onboard to have your digital bounce?? are you guys using the korg at 24 bit, etc...or 1bit DSD for your bouncedowns??

Definitely record everything at DSD quality, then make whatever formats you want in Audiogate, such as 44/16, then you always have the original HD file. The line in's of the MR-1000 via it's converters sounds fantastic. This machine was a special project for Korg, they put a lot of work into it. You record analogue into the MR-1000's line inputs, then transfer the file via USB2 to your computer and do any conversions there using Audiogate.

The great thing about the portability of the MR-1000 is that you can print your mixes straight to it at DSD quality, then take the MR-1000 to your mastering engineer and hand it to him and he or she can run straight out of it into their analogue mastering chain while still at DSD quality. If they are mastering to tape via analogue gear, the quality will stay at DSD for the entire process.

Remember though, for line in you must use 1/4 inch balanced jacks, don't use the XLR connections.

by **jkhuri44** » Sat Jun 20, 2009 7:36 pm

my curiousity was mainly whether using the Korg's A/D at 1bit was better than just recording to (insert name brand convertor) at 24/44 or 24/48

?

not really looking to start a whole AD debate, but the whole DSD thing is very interesting to me as you guys have been touching on the extended bandwidth sounding smoother...

so....

by **Thirteen** » Sat Jun 20, 2009 7:50 pm

jkhuri44 wrote:my curiousity was mainly whether using the Korg's A/D at 1bit was better than just recording to (insert name brand convertor) at 24/44 or 24/48

?

not really looking to start a whole AD debate, but the whole DSD thing is very interesting to me as you guys have been touching on the extended bandwidth sounding smoother...

so....

The issue is that with the Korg the data is recorded in a 1 bit format, that means no decimation filters and an ultra high sample rate. What you are recording is the raw output of the A-D converter, in this case Burr-Brown PCM4202's. If you use conventional converters you are restricted to a maximum of 192k and you have your signal passed through a decimation filter. The 1 bit stream is a pure recording of the first stage of the converter. The output DAC's of the MR-1000 are Cirrus Logic CS4398's, so the conversion at front and back of the MR-1000 are about as good as you can get.

The beauty of the MR-1000 is the high resolution of the device, and the lack of any filtering of the data stream from the ADC. So in answer to your question, recording a 1-bit stream at 5.6 MHz is hugely better than recording a filtered PCM stream at 44 - 192k.

by **musikwerks** » Sat Jun 20, 2009 8:06 pm

I love how this forum works. I have been considering the MR2000S and was wondering if there was anyone with insight... and then this thread pops up. Love it.

by **heathen** » Sun Jun 21, 2009 8:23 am

I'm not jumping on the bandwagon just yet, I'm gonna wait a while and see what else comes out. Working from an all analog system into it makes good sense to me but working from digital into it makes less sense at the moment even with some tasty outboard processing, only because there is no agreement on a new standard.

Anyway I do want a DSD recorder but...... I'd rather wait until there are more daws that support the format.

Hey Jamil, I bet you're thinking "geez wish we had mixed the album onto this thing". :)

by **jkhuri44** » Sun Jun 21, 2009 1:43 pm

The issue is that with the Korg the data is recorded in a 1 bit format, that means no decimation filters and an ultra high sample rate. What you are recording is the raw output of the A-D converter, in this case Burr-Brown PCM4202's. If you use conventional converters you are restricted to a maximum of 192k and you have your signal passed through a decimation filter. The 1 bit stream is a pure recording of the first stage of the converter. The output DAC's of the MR-1000 are Cirrus Logic CS4398's, so the conversion at front and back of the MR-1000 are about as good as you can get.

The beauty of the MR-1000 is the high resolution of the device, and the lack of any filtering of the data stream from the ADC. So in answer to your question, recording a 1-bit stream at 5.6 MHz is hugely better than recording a filtered PCM stream at 44 - 192k.

thanks for the tech blab, shit like that makes me all gooey inside.

i was planning on buying a recorded for field recording, guess this sucker will be a flexible solution for both that and mix printing :)

ohh, and heath....

me thinks printing a mix out of cubase, summed analogly, smacking into a master buss EQ and compressor would be a beaut way to print a final mix....even if the whole mix process was not analog!

by **NYMo** » Sun Jun 21, 2009 1:57 pm

Hi there,

Jamil...apparently battery life gets sucked VERY quickly with the MR1000.
(especially @5.6)

Cheers
N
Y
M
O

by **jkhuri44** » Sun Jun 21, 2009 4:43 pm

not toooo sure atm,

but i'd probably run something like this off a solar powered backpak :)

by **mick_e** » Sun Jun 21, 2009 5:10 pm

If your keen on the mr1000 I know of a shop selling one only at 1399 for the month of june. Seems like an awesome price for a piece of gear like this. I don't know if its against forum rules to name shops etc.

by **NYMo** » Sun Jun 21, 2009 8:41 pm

Hi there,

One should be able to pick up one of these bad boyz for under $1200 ;-)

Cheers
N
YM

O

by **heathen** » Sun Jun 21, 2009 8:46 pm

NYMo wrote:Hi there,

One should be able to pick up one of these bad boyz for under $1200 ;-)

Cheers
N
YM

O

Ok then $1200 is pretty hard to beat.

by **heathen** » Sun Jun 21, 2009 8:50 pm

jkhuri44 wrote:
The issue is that with the Korg the data is recorded in a 1 bit format, that means no decimation filters and an ultra high sample rate. What you are recording is the raw output of the A-D converter, in this case Burr-Brown PCM4202's. If you use conventional converters you are restricted to a maximum of 192k and you have your signal passed through a decimation filter. The 1 bit stream is a pure recording of the first stage of the converter. The output DAC's of the MR-1000 are Cirrus Logic CS4398's, so the conversion at front and back of the MR-1000 are about as good as you can get.

The beauty of the MR-1000 is the high resolution of the device, and the lack of any filtering of the data stream from the ADC. So in answer to your question, recording a 1-bit stream at 5.6 MHz is hugely better than recording a filtered PCM stream at 44 - 192k.

thanks for the tech blab, shit like that makes me all gooey inside.

i was planning on buying a recorded for field recording, guess this sucker will be a flexible solution for both that and mix printing :)

ohh, and heath....

me thinks printing a mix out of cubase, summed analogly, smacking into a master buss EQ and compressor would be a beaut way to print a final mix....even if the whole mix process was not analog!

Analogly. Great word, should be used more often. :)

Well I'm not buying one until I get all my other gear racked, which will be after I get my acoustics done, which will be after I get my driveway done......................could be a little while. But yeah I'd like 1.

by **The Tasmanian** » Sun Jun 21, 2009 9:00 pm

under $1200 - can you spell the dealer backwards?
Chris Townend

by **Thirteen** » Sun Jun 21, 2009 9:02 pm

The Tasmanian wrote:under $1200 - can you spell the dealer backwards?
Chris Townend

His name's Leon. You can find him at the Golden Sheaf hotel most evenings. The password is "anchovy".

2 mix recorders

2 mix recorders

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