where should the vocal sit in the mix in this context.

[TimS]

I think there's just too much gear around worship music - just from what I've seen on tv, YouTube and heard discussed on fora.

I couldnt agree more - my daughter goes to a local Christian College and I was at a working bee last year (compulsory mind you) and needed to visit to loo.
I went in to the auditorium and the noticed stage was littered with Vox's, Marshalls, Gallian Kruger bass amps and a stack of keys, not to mention a full DW kit.
I'm happy to pay for my childs eduction, but holy sh!t (excuse the pun) I hope I'm not financing some 20yr olds's gear GAS for his church band!!
There was some serious $$$ on the pedalboards and Gibson/Fender/Gretsch and other guitars out in the back room.
The MD happened to be in there at the time and I mentioned they had some very nice gear - then he said "oh, you should see whats out the back!!"
I nearly fainted!!

[heathen]

So what's going on in churches these days? Not being smart I'm just interested as I've never been and am not intending to. I just thought church was about seeking a bit of inner peace and reflecting on the past and maybe a little prayer for the future.

Do most churches record and release music like "hillsong"? Or just have bands who perform? Is the music just an activity or an integral part of the church?

[ChrisW]

Based on posts on a drum forum I visit, some church members donate very nice drum kits to the church band.
Hey, that's absolutely fine.
It's a free world.
There does seem to be a disconnect between the acquired gear and the end result in some cases.
Playing a 500-1000 capacity space, with a dozen mics around the kit, a full perspex screen around the drums and the drummer isolated apart from a detailed in-ear mix seems counter intuitive to me. No surprise that on the same drum forum the most often posted problem from church drummers was feeling out of control of their own sound, and additionally being blamed for playing way too loud.

[thefridge]

Gian

So been there and absolutely ditto the comments about performance vs communal singing - that's a balance that each congregation needs to set for itself. However, if the lady insists "thats the way its always been done" then there will never be any improvement, will there?

Church people can have difficulty expressing negative emotions constructively, especially when in church - for all you've described, she may have taken your offer to help as being a statement she was doing a bad job, and be all upset about it. There are those who like to feel essential to the running of the place, yes? Even if she's halfway grateful for the help, she's halfway resentful at the loss of control.

Does your church have a music director? Do you and the band discuss sound during rehersal? My experience is that you need to get a broader consensus on the question that just you vs her, and if you can then get the others to speak to her as well, it helps to de-personalise it. Good luck.

So true! I have been driven to distraction by lazy singers who let their arms drop when they are not singing, letting their mics point at the foldback, or who hold them near their navel, and complain they cant hear themselves!!!. A meeting with the pastor and all the musicians and set up team proved a big help, cause most of these are amatures anyway and have no idea of mic gain vs distance etc etc. but the best advice I can give is to choose one young (interested) person as a "trainee" pa dude, and get the lady in question to teach that person how she mixes. You can then (sensitively) correct those mistakes on the days you two do the mix, and the young'un learns! Could take the heat out of the situation - it worked for us. cheers, Mick ps our 13yr old kid can now pull a decent mix all by himself, and the oldies love him!

[musikwerks]

One thing I learned, the hard way mind you, was that in a church setting you cannot expect professional results from volunteers. A church will (and should) err on the side of the person over a stellar mix any day.

[Gian]

back when I used to go to church, PA systems were never seen.
No one was sitting behind a mixing desk, and there was never feedback when the preacher/vicar spoke.
Are most churches as big as Hillsong now?
If not I go back to my earlier comment. As a rock drummer I've played in quite large spaces without mics.
Many experienced secular musicians will tell you that the quick route to sound chaos is to litter the stage with open microphones and monitors, and give every musician a separate and detailed monitor feed.
I think there's just too much gear around worship music - just from what I've seen on tv, YouTube and heard discussed on fora.

In the last church I went to I set up (wired) headphone mixes for everyone, we even got a set of Roland digital drums (despite the limitations) and it was heaps better to mix the FOH, as there was no stage volume. No fold backs, and 2 headphone sends with each musician/singer being able to get a more of me level if they wanted.