Pro Tools HD VS LE

[ChrisW]

the current "limited" le blows away what i could have hoped to do in the late 80's demo studio...

Couldn't agree more.

[no-fi]

unfortunately, it in turn is blown away by almost every other daw program......
and limits you to a selection of audio interfaces you wouldn't pick for any other daw program out of all the others available out there....


but yeah - it's still good, and if you can't write music using PTLE, the problem isn't PTLE.
:-P

[ChrisW]

unfortunately, it in turn is blown away by almost every other daw program......

Here's the two saving features IMHO.

It's effectively the same format as most upper end professionals are using.
Yes, it's easy to open PT files in Logic, or Cubase data in PT etc.....
But I've been working on a project for six months with someone in London and a couple of people in Sweden, and I really think it helps that we are using the same format.

Secondly, I truly appreciate the simplicity of LE.
For certain projects I don't need advanced midi features, or tons of free plug-ins and deeply embedded morph windows.

For those two aspects, and at LE's price point, I think it's a winner.

[ChrisW]

Incidentally, I was using the high end Digi product of it's time (MIX24) for several years.
Once I moved from busy London to less busy NSW I couldn't afford the endless upgrade fees. It cost me several thousand dollars every couple of years to stay PT contemporary with the television companies and recording studios in London.
I couldn't contemplate $20k to $30k for a PTHD set up now (including interface and Mac computer).
So I'll most likely migrate to something cheaper, but no less effective (like Logic).
Maybe Digidesign are sitting pretty, but they would keep my business if they brought out a more affordable HD system, somewhere between LE and current HD.

[Kurt]

I don't use PT but just to play devil's advocate for a minute...

If they enhanced the feature set of their home studio platform to include the same features as their professional platform why would anyone buy HD?

With the speed of modern computers most people could easily no away with dsp card etc and let the cpu do all the work. The difference in track count/delay compensation is artificially maintained. Imagine if you'd paid 20k for an HD system and then in protools 9LE they made it able to do exactly the same things for 2k!

LE is available to make "little guys" compatible with "big guys", not to price their flagship product out of the market.

[ChrisW]

Well I don't need a super high track count.
Nor do I need 192khz capability, or advanced/free plug-ins.
So I think there are ways Digi can differentiate between platforms at various prices.

The same way hardware manufacturers build in different feature sets at different price points.
Actually I would prefer Logic if I could buy a simpler 'Gold' version and they made the 'Platinum' version the one with a gazillion features.
Then it becomes more a purchase based on widespread need (like delay compensation and mp3 import/export) rather than an issue of price.

[TimS]

There are big differences between LE & HD, but MP3 export and ADC should be the prerequisite for all DAW's these days..

[Kurt]

From what I understand PT only does reatime rendering doesn't it? It's so easy to convert anything to mp3 with other software why would you want to do it in realtime twice, once for mp3 and again for wav, from PT?

[jkhuri44]

I don't use PT but just to play devil's advocate for a minute...

If they enhanced the feature set of their home studio platform to include the same features as their professional platform why would anyone buy HD?

With the speed of modern computers most people could easily no away with dsp card etc and let the cpu do all the work. The difference in track count/delay compensation is artificially maintained. Imagine if you'd paid 20k for an HD system and then in protools 9LE they made it able to do exactly the same things for 2k!

LE is available to make "little guys" compatible with "big guys", not to price their flagship product out of the market.

shhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh!!! truth hurts man!!

[Jason]

I don't use PT but just to play devil's advocate for a minute...

If they enhanced the feature set of their home studio platform to include the same features as their professional platform why would anyone buy HD?

With the speed of modern computers most people could easily no away with dsp card etc and let the cpu do all the work. The difference in track count/delay compensation is artificially maintained. Imagine if you'd paid 20k for an HD system and then in protools 9LE they made it able to do exactly the same things for 2k!

LE is available to make "little guys" compatible with "big guys", not to price their flagship product out of the market.

You would still need HD even if the they were the same. You can only get a max of 18 tracks into an LE box and thats at 48k. You could get 10 channels with great converters but you are still stuck at 48k. @ 96k you have to use the onboard pres/line in and the spdif and still only get 10 channels.

When I want to track a band live I go to a studio with a HD rig so i can get enough inputs with great conversion. But I have no problem with this.

I am not asking for better interfaces just for them to get rid of the program limitations. Or atleast lets us buy an add on for delay comp etc...

[Linear]

Here's how I got around this limitation restriction garbage.

I have an m-audio lightbridge. It's a 32 channel ADAT interface that works with Protools M-powered (exactly the same as LE). It means I can use Apogee converters and NO digidesign converters.

The retards at digidesign made a mistake - which they eventually undid - 7.3.1 CS2 is not restricted. I can run 32 simultaneous channels @ 48k and 16 @ 96k.

7.4 onwards is restricted to 18 I/O.

It actually works too! So when I have to use Protools, I can do it a) without spending $20k on HD, b) without having to use a 002 and c) without a track restriction.

Chris

[musikwerks]

Many, many software packages have "restrictions" built in to them This allows the product to grow as the user does.

From the digi website....

Pro Tools LE

Get many of the same audio tools the pros use in a more affordable package. Pro Tools LE® systems come in a wide range of pro-quality hardware interfaces, and include Pro Tools LE software, enabling you to create, edit, and mix professional-quality productions right in your home, project studio, or on the road.

Learn more about Pro Tools LE systems

* Flexible audio interfaces delivering amazing sound quality, low latency, and rock-solid reliability
* Work with up to 48 simultaneous stereo audio tracks (expandable up to 128 tracks*)
* Compose and mix music with up to 32 simultaneous Instrument tracks
* Fully integrated MIDI sequencing with up to 256 simultaneous MIDI tracks
* Supports up to 96 kHz (audio interface dependent)
* Gain hands-on control with a C|24 or Command|8 control surface
* Supports Mac OS X, Windows Vista (32-bit Business or Ultimate), and Windows XP-based computers

Chris, why do you have such contempt for the Digidesign staff? Why would you call them retards? Digi are quite up front about it being geared at "home" and "project" studios. If someone is buying it thinking it's going to give them something else, well....

[Sammas]

unfortunately, it in turn is blown away by almost every other daw program......

Here's the two saving features IMHO.

It's effectively the same format as most upper end professionals are using.
Yes, it's easy to open PT files in Logic, or Cubase data in PT etc.....
But I've been working on a project for six months with someone in London and a couple of people in Sweden, and I really think it helps that we are using the same format.

Secondly, I truly appreciate the simplicity of LE.
For certain projects I don't need advanced midi features, or tons of free plug-ins and deeply embedded morph windows.

For those two aspects, and at LE's price point, I think it's a winner.

I kind of agree with you, but the latest versions (from say PTle 7 onwards) really piss me off. It is getting weighed down with features that I don't need, yet missing one or two basic features that I (and many others) consider a must!! They are trying to make it everything for everyone whilst holding back the really basic features. Why do I want increased midi functionality? Why do I want a score editor? Give me ADC! Give me Smux! Give me basic features without have to pay extra for them. They should have put all the extra midi and scoring features in a toolbox instead of the really basic ones... but then... I guess not many people would buy it.

It's a genius marketing strategy, I'll give them that.

[ChrisW]

Not to be down on your suggestions - I'd like ADC too!
But I actually find PT LE's midi usable for the first time now.
I don't think many of the midi features in LE are expendable, they are still more on the basic side IMO.

[Sammas]

Not to be down on your suggestions - I'd like ADC too!
But I actually find PT LE's midi usable for the first time now.
I don't think many of the midi features in LE are expendable, they are still more on the basic side IMO.

Protools has proved that it is still very useful software without usable midi. It became the industry standard
without usable midi, which is a slightly funny thought. Protools has first and foremost been mix software. It's
streamlined and intuitive nature made it the number one choice for mixing music. While the added midi features
are nice, I think choosing them over basic mix features like ADC, MP3 export, etc really lean against protools'
initial strengths. Strengths that gained it, it's reputation in the first place.

just my 2¢. =)

[Linear]

Many, many software packages have "restrictions" built in to them This allows the product to grow as the user does.

Many, many oppressive governments have "restrictions" built in to them This allows the regime to grow as the population does.

Come on, North Korea isn't that bad! And neither is Iran. Sure, they control their population ruthlessly, oppress and restrict freedoms, infringe human rights and threaten/intimidate opposition, but deep down the people are happy! Let's maintain the status-quo. We don't need change, after all who are we to Kriticise?

Kris, you're too funny. Stop it now!

Chris

[Sammas]

Digidesign is the North Korea of DAW creators??


I can't help but laugh at that thought! :lol:


But anyway... Everyone has a choice of what DAW software to use... buy it, don't buy it. Whatever. Just
get on with it. I'd love to use Protools LE, but the restrictions make it expensive and f&%king irritating
so I don't... on goes life.

[13thbeach]

You know kids, second hand HD core cards are really not out of reach anymore. Slowly build a rig with a core card, decent set of converters and then add on you extra cards etc... This way you get all the stuff your "missing" and you won't fork out 20k. I'm running an older HD3 rig with a lynx aroura 16. It kicks ass over LE, I just want to get another lynx and i'll be happy.

[Aearth]

You know kids, second hand HD core cards are really not out of reach anymore. Slowly build a rig with a core card, decent set of converters and then add on you extra cards etc... This way you get all the stuff your "missing" and you won't fork out 20k. I'm running an older HD3 rig with a lynx aroura 16. It kicks ass over LE, I just want to get another lynx and i'll be happy.

Used PT HD2 entry

HD core card $3000
HD Accel process card $2500
Digi 96 IO $1600
PT8 TDM $ 450
TDM plugins $2000
Old Mac 2.3 PCI x $1000
Mac OS Leopard $ 120

Total $10,670

[13thbeach]

You know kids, second hand HD core cards are really not out of reach anymore. Slowly build a rig with a core card, decent set of converters and then add on you extra cards etc... This way you get all the stuff your "missing" and you won't fork out 20k. I'm running an older HD3 rig with a lynx aroura 16. It kicks ass over LE, I just want to get another lynx and i'll be happy.

Used PT HD2 entry

HD core card $3000
HD Accel process card $2500
Digi 96 IO $1600
PT8 TDM $ 450
TDM plugins $2000
Old Mac 2.3 PCI x $1000
Mac OS Leopard $ 120

Total $10,670

That looks about right however I would assume you'd already have a computer to record on, which you would need for any reocrding system be it PTHD, cubase, Reaper etc. Also you need to buy plugs for any recording software application.

[Aearth]

You know kids, second hand HD core cards are really not out of reach anymore. Slowly build a rig with a core card, decent set of converters and then add on you extra cards etc... This way you get all the stuff your "missing" and you won't fork out 20k. I'm running an older HD3 rig with a lynx aroura 16. It kicks ass over LE, I just want to get another lynx and i'll be happy.

Used PT HD2 entry

HD core card $3000
HD Accel process card $2500
Digi 96 IO $1600
PT8 TDM $ 450
TDM plugins $2000
Old Mac 2.3 PCI x $1000
Mac OS Leopard $ 120

Ok but TDM pluggers are 50% to 100% more than native.

nIC

Total $10,670

That looks about right however I would assume you'd already have a computer to record on, which you would need for any reocrding system be it PTHD, cubase, Reaper etc. Also you need to buy plugs for any recording software application.

[Sammas]

You know kids, second hand HD core cards are really not out of reach anymore. Slowly build a rig with a core card, decent set of converters and then add on you extra cards etc... This way you get all the stuff your "missing" and you won't fork out 20k. I'm running an older HD3 rig with a lynx aroura 16. It kicks ass over LE, I just want to get another lynx and i'll be happy.

Used PT HD2 entry

HD core card $3000
HD Accel process card $2500
Digi 96 IO $1600
PT8 TDM $ 450
TDM plugins $2000
Old Mac 2.3 PCI x $1000
Mac OS Leopard $ 120

Total $10,670

That looks about right however I would assume you'd already have a computer to record on, which you would need for any reocrding system be it PTHD, cubase, Reaper etc. Also you need to buy plugs for any recording software application.

Yeah, it is still a hefty investment though.

If you already have the computer, a Lynx Aurora 16 + Logic studio is only a fraction of the price. Digital is one of those things... I'd much prefer to spend the extra money on analogue gear than invest in a HD system.

[13thbeach]

I'd much prefer to spend the extra money on analogue gear than invest in a HD system.

Yeah I did both. haha!

[musikwerks]

Chris, it's pretty clear you're not capable of discussing this rationally so I won't bother with it anymore.

[Aearth]

You know kids, second hand HD core cards are really not out of reach anymore. Slowly build a rig with a core card, decent set of converters and then add on you extra cards etc... This way you get all the stuff your "missing" and you won't fork out 20k. I'm running an older HD3 rig with a lynx aroura 16. It kicks ass over LE, I just want to get another lynx and i'll be happy.

Used PT HD2 entry

HD core card $3000
HD Accel process card $2500
Digi 96 IO $1600
PT8 TDM $ 450
TDM plugins $2000
Old Mac 2.3 PCI x $1000
Mac OS Leopard $ 120

Total $10,670

That looks about right however I would assume you'd already have a computer to record on, which you would need for any reocrding system be it PTHD, cubase, Reaper etc. Also you need to buy plugs for any recording software application.

Yeah, it is still a hefty investment though.

If you already have the computer, a Lynx Aurora 16 + Logic studio is only a fraction of the price. Digital is one of those things... I'd much prefer to spend the extra money on analogue gear than invest in a HD system.

That's why I suggested getting Logic. I know PTLe is a cheap recording system and it works, but the original poster was inquiring about quality of recording/mixing.
I too have both Logic and PTHD. My PTHD cost me $40k and my logic system cost me $6k.
nIC

[Jason]

[quote="Sammas"]
But anyway... Everyone has a choice of what DAW software to use... buy it, don't buy it. [/quote]

Not really. If you wish to go into larger studios your going to have to use protools. So many of them have it. I then bring the files home to edit so I need protools to open up the session. Just the way it is.


[quote]It's
streamlined and intuitive nature made it the number one choice for mixing music.[/quote]

Don't you mean forcefull "you must have protools to play with the big boys" advertising ;-)

[ChrisW]

My PTHD cost me $40k and my logic system cost me $6k.
nIC

This is true.

Aside:
By the way, Pro Tools became the industry standard for recording not mixing.
Most high-end studios do a lot more real musician recording than midi recording....... well they did 10-15 years ago when PT established itself as the studio standard.

[Linear]

Chris, it's pretty clear you're not capable of discussing this rationally so I won't bother with it anymore.

Kris, finally we agree on something! You're 100% correct. I am totally incapable of having a rational conversation about such an irrational subject.

I hate protools for the same reasons I hate Telstra and Microsoft. But just like in audio (ie owning Protools), I have a Telstra landline and MS Office installed on my computer.

Some people staunchly defend them, for whatever reason. I guess it's the differences in opinion that makes the world go round.

Lighten up!!

Chris xo

[Chris H]

The other night I was in an audio schools studio using a HD system through a control 24. I was mixing on my headphones (sennheiser HD595).
When I got the project home I started using my 002R and immediately heard there was a loss of top end and a more closed sound.
I dont think I was dreaming this but is this due to the different converters that are employed in the two separate systems?
If so how does one improve the sound of the 002R experience?
Cheers

Some things seem to never change...not in a hurry anyhow. Rick's previous answer, the headphone amp was of course right on the money re the original question BUT....The proverbial can of worms has been opened.................
................... and here we are chewing away.

My first PT experience was with the Audio Media 111 card and i was in a studio where i needed to sync my tape machine to my DAW. This was ( relativly speaking ) easy to achieve on both Logic and Cuebase versions of the day but not possible with the free or "unprofessional" version of Protools bundled with the card. You had to go the full blown mega bucks protools option.
Both sides of the argument have validity, Nothing wrong with studios like Soundfirm and Sing Sing having Protools all the way. But.....and it's a BIG BUT.... i still see far too often, newbys going the protools 002 option using many reasons that are simply not valid including an effort to be "legitimate" and "Pro" because of the Digi name.
I personally know about a dozen who would fit into this category and all would be better off sonically and budget wise with Logic and a Fireface or Ensemble, and they all have aspirations of music production being a big part of their lives.
Here is one good reason why, in my opinion..........

As a smaller operator if i made the digi choice i could NOT have developed as an engineer, and my studio would not have developed to the point it is now...simply impossible with my business cash flow etc. Either my limited cash flow would have gone to getting and updating the various fully optioned pro tools rigs that have come and GONE over the years, leaving me with not enough cash for pulling a wage or getting good analogue gear, or i would have been lumbered with a lower optioned Pro (joke) tools setup that did not have the essential elements of a professional setup.
I have seen this process leading good friends to the point of being disillusioned with the whole audio/recording thing, selling up and seeking a career well away from recording. This can happen with any large unwise purchase/investment in gear.

It is a total fallacy that you need pro tools to integrate work with a major studio. It is only in the mix stage if the mix is developed on protools that you need another protools rig and then you need the same plugins etc etc. Any recording session i do on logic can go to a "tool's" studio for further recording and mix, and any tool's recording can come to my "logic studio for further recording and a mix. Been doing it for years, just a month ago i did all the recording component of a project that went to the US for editing and Mixing on their HD setup, tight timelins etc...no probs. PS like many in the US they stay well away from the Tool's converters and go Apogee because they view the tool's conversion as fairly ordinary. Back with the Audio Media 111 card, it was no sync to tape....now it is no ADC....what a joke...if you want a really pro set up with a sensible entry price with full functionality....it's a no brainer.... Don't Buy Pro Tools:)

[musikwerks]

Me? Lighten up? I'm not the one comparing Digi to North Korea! Geez Chris... you need a holiday.

For the record, I am a Logic user. I have no serious interest in PT, LE or otherwise unless a client requests it. I'm not defending PT or digi, merely pointing out some pretty obvious factors that you're seemingly overlooking. But hey, lighten up right? :roll: