Lets talk solar - and get our heads out of the sand!

[Chinagraf]

Have you seen those 'Turby' wind generators they have in the UK? Stick a couple of them on the roof..

[DwaneHollands]

Interesting about new solar technology. Placed a call to Stratco Solar about doing a proposal for a small system to get our feet wet. Maybe 1kw Grid connect.

Hmm, how much power do we use per month? About 14,000 Kw hours. 1kw system creates about 1400 Kw hours per year....That's a very small dent...

But for us I think it's something I'd ultimately like to do, since it means we will eventually own our power and reduce one of the largest overheads we have.

I'd probably be waiting until the technology matures a bit more and there is more output per dollar invested.

[The Tasmanian]

Yeah Dwane - its way too expensive for most people - considering the small result one gets.
The price is gonna drop a whole lot in the next 2 years
And the technology/choices will skyrocket
The Euro's have been onto this for ages now - China's now going for it - all of these mobs in California too that have had a head start - The urgent competition for these products will be something that mankind has never seen on such a rapid scale.
There are so many great brains on it now

[DwaneHollands]

That's gonna be great then. Looking forward to that! I'll keep get proposals from time to time!

[norm]

Currently Australian companies are charging approx $5 per kw for panels. I can land them here from China direct for approx $1.75 per kw. So the price will fall very soon.

[ChrisW]

So the price will fall very soon.

I hope so.
Although I fear the head in the sand mentality (or should I say head in the mine) will keep demand low, and therefore the price up.

[Adam Dempsey]

Yeah Dwane - its way too expensive for most people - considering the small result one gets.
The price is gonna drop a whole lot in the next 2 years
And the technology/choices will skyrocket

Two things: sliver cells, and quantum dots.

We're also so far behind other countries (Japan) regarding solar chargeable phones/ipods, etc. Totally do-able.

We (humans) can make x,000,000 cars per day or put 2% of GDP into a war effort, we can do all this.

re the science, I recommend the Q&A at:
royalsociety.org/page.asp?id=6229
and
www.newscientist.com/article/dn11462

[Nile]

Wow I never thought I'd be reading this on TR but good on you Chris for bringing it up.

Like BJB Sydney, our premises are also leased, so the incentive to invest and install in solar just isn't there. I can think of one or two commercial studios in Melbourne that own their own buildings, but it seems most are leased. This seems to create the sad irony that that bigger audio facilities and thus the ones creating the greatest emissions are those least able, or likely, to invest in renewable energy.

Or course, there are a myriad of other things we can all do in our day to day activities to "offset" (such a trendy word) our audio folly. How about a few of us stop supporting the industry that creates more harmful emissions than transport use globally? That'd be animal farming http://www.fao.org/newsroom/en/news/2006/1000448/index.html.

We can also convert our cars to LPG (lower emissions than oil) and get a $1750 rebate from the government (it was $2000 when I got mine done).

http://www.ausindustry.gov.au/Energyandfuels/LPGVehicleScheme/Pages/home.aspx

And we all have bikes for shorter trips, surely.


There is also the $1600 rebate on ceiling insulation deal going on at the moment.

http://www.environment.gov.au/energyeff ... nsulation/
[url]

Tip of the iceberg stuff here (well, what's left of it!), but there is so much we can do even if we can't afford solar panels.

Thanks for the rant

[The Tasmanian]

Hi Adam
Nice links - really informative
And Nile - yes we all have to do our bit - as uncomfortable as they are..
For instance I (maybe stupidly) chose to buy my first house in Tasmania - even though 98% of my work is in Sydney - I choose to drive everytime to Tasmania at about 10 times the cost of flying and it takes 2 1/2 days to get there (and it shits me)
But the other comfy option is get on a plane for around $100 and be in Tas in 1hr 40 mins - But I would use an immense amount of carbon flying - So getting the shits is what i must live with..
Its seems that we usually take the easy way before thinking of the environment.
We are a lazy species really - thats why we have gotten into this state we are in

[Kurt]

Have you actually done the sums, flying vs driving? It'd be interesting to see if you're actually reducing pollution or just subjecting yourself to an uncomfortable panacea...

Actually, you are not reducing pollution you are increasing it... The plane will make the journey whether you're on it or not, the car wouldn't.

Hi Adam
Nice links - really informative
And Nile - yes we all have to do our bit - as uncomfortable as they are..
For instance I (maybe stupidly) chose to buy my first house in Tasmania - even though 98% of my work is in Sydney - I choose to drive everytime to Tasmania at about 10 times the cost of flying and it takes 2 1/2 days to get there (and it shits me)
But the other comfy option is get on a plane for around $100 and be in Tas in 1hr 40 mins - But I would use an immense amount of carbon flying - So getting the shits is what i must live with..
Its seems that we usually take the easy way before thinking of the environment.
We are a lazy species really - thats why we have gotten into this state we are in

[The Tasmanian]

Kurt
The plane wont make the journey if there is no passengers...Its like saying I should catch taxis everywhere in the city instead of riding a bike because the Taxi is on the road - I don't buy that thinking
I try my best to not support heavy polluting industries if I have a choice - and I have one in this instance (and many many others)
The carbon for a flight is many many times higher - do the maths
Plane flights are horrific for pollution full stop.

[The Tasmanian]

AND - the topic is - how can we stay in business with the huge future energy costs - do we go Solar?

[Ben M]

I saw this movie in the early 80's called "Roadie" starring MEATLOAF. He saves the day in the end by powering an entire rock concert with one potato. Does that mean we may only need a 1kg bag of spuds to power Sydney CBD?

BTW, solar panels are not only for wealthy people. Some people don't have the choice. Like me. I certainly factored them into my budget when I build my house. The $30000 the system cost me was 1/6 of the total building budget. Most of the people I know with solar systems have them out of pure necessity rather than some status thing. It was solar or spend $60000 to put ugly power poles every 100m (and clearing trees and vegetation) from the nearest transformer which is 1km from me. The choice was easy.

Now.. where's my peeler?

[The Tasmanian]

Hey Ben
when forced to do it (by cost $60k vs 30k) one has no choice really - and this is the exact situation that all of us will face soon.
If we don't generate power/ decrease our power consumption - we will all be in the same situation as you - very soon it will be way to expensive to draw power from the dirty grid.
On another note - there is this great clan of guy's in Marrickville in Sydney that have a 1.2 cubed trailer full of batteries with solar panels that powers a full festival for a whole weekend - PA lights - the whole lot!
And here we are concerned that we cannot power our houses/studios/small businesses from solar - we have to start somewhere.

[TimS]

Hi Adam
Nice links - really informative
And Nile - yes we all have to do our bit - as uncomfortable as they are..
For instance I (maybe stupidly) chose to buy my first house in Tasmania - even though 98% of my work is in Sydney - I choose to drive everytime to Tasmania at about 10 times the cost of flying and it takes 2 1/2 days to get there (and it shits me)
But the other comfy option is get on a plane for around $100 and be in Tas in 1hr 40 mins - But I would use an immense amount of carbon flying - So getting the shits is what i must live with..
Its seems that we usually take the easy way before thinking of the environment.
We are a lazy species really - thats why we have gotten into this state we are in

Chris - if you drive a Toyota Prius, you'll save plenty on exhaust emissions on the long haul parts of your trip to the Apple Isle - as it uses rechargeable batteries for power. Lower emissions and up to 50% better fuel economy than a similarly sized conventional petrol vehicle... You would get fuel cost savings and reduced carbon emission.

[The Tasmanian]

Hi Tim
Unfortunately a Prius would need charging multiple times to get to Tasmania.
I made sure I got a small efficient 4 cylinder wagon - I can do the trip in under 3 tanks of fuel (around $150)
And I am looking at LPG conversion too.
Again I think this battery tech will improve vastly over the next few years -
But am hoping these Hydrogen/battery/biodeisel vehicles get to market soon.
It would not surprise me if in the very near future where the car's outside becomes solar panels,
and then we have these hybrid solar/ hydrogen/battery/biodeisel cars coming to market.
There are people developing paints that are solar - we already have clothing/cloth type material that can generate solar electricity - There is a UK company that is making steel roofing that is a massive solar panel (in production now)
its only a matter of time

[TimS]

I thought the Prius would self-charge while running and just need 'topping up' overnight..
I'm not sure as I dont have one either ;-)

[The Tasmanian]

The Prius uses petrol over 40kms per hour - so the whole trip would use petrol
Its a great city car, but no good for long trips or country driving (as you are basically then driving a petrol car).

[TimS]

The Prius uses petrol over 40kms per hour - so the whole trip would use petrol
Its a great city car, but no good for long trips or country driving (as you are basically then driving a petrol car).

Ahhh, I see.
Not that carbon friendly then eh..

[Kurt]

Top Gear did a test where they drove a Prius and a Golf diesel the length of Great Britain. They reckoned the Golf was a lot nicer to drive and it got better mileage with less emissions.

The problem with Hydrogen fuel cells is the massive amount of energy it takes to separate the hydrogen from oxygen, until there's a sustainable way of doing it the carbon footprint is much larger than just burning petrol in a IC engine.

You can charge batteries (very slowly) with solar power but batteries themselves are an environmental disaster!

Where possible/practical I think grid connected solar/wind are fantastic measures to reduce our impact on the planet. Transport is a lot more difficult to mitigate.

Virgin Blue offer carbon neutral flights For an extra fee on the ticket they buy carbon credits to offset your share of the plane's emissions.

The Prius uses petrol over 40kms per hour - so the whole trip would use petrol
Its a great city car, but no good for long trips or country driving (as you are basically then driving a petrol car).

Ahhh, I see.
Not that carbon friendly then eh..

[Vic]

I just thought I would do a search on here to see any previous solar discussions. I found a few and am just really posting to share the fact that I just ordered a 4kw solar system (that feeds into the grid) for our studio build and house.

It is this system here (the special runs out this Monday, so no sure if the link will stay).

http://www.energymatters.com.au/special ... E.facebook

it takes anywhere between 3-8 weeks for installation to happen.

I upgraded the inverter to one that bluetooths my computer each day with a breakdown in 30 minute segments of power generations and consumption.

It's a nerve racking thing wading through the quagmire of solar information, misinformation, sharks and charlatans but I think we got there in the end.

Anyway, just thought I would share the info.

Vic

[The Tasmanian]

Good on you Vic!
I still have not taken the plunge, but spent a few years doing as much research as I could.
During this time as the prices have dropped immensely, the quality has increased dramatically.
Computerized battery management systems have upped the Kw output.

Right now if I was to go 100% off grid it would cost me $8k-10k, Super high quality system made from various manufactures products bundled together.
I'm not interested in feed in stuff. no hand outs, no begging for energy prices.
Just generate what I use.
No electricity bills....no contracts with any dangerous coal burning polluters. Let them go broke.

Probably going to take me another 18 months (until I have my studio built)
..in which time it will be cheaper again.

[Ben M]

Nice one Vic!

May the sun shine brightly on your panels.


ps. Try to have them mounted where you can get to them easily. I do an annual clean of my panels to get any dirt/dust off which is always good for maximum power. Last time I cleaned them I found small bits of Lichen growing on them.

[Vic]

Hi Chris and Ben.

Yes, we thought for a long time about going completely off grid. But we decided to go for a feed in system as there is nothing to stop us from detaching this from the grid later and connecting it to batteries as that part of it gets cheaper and more efficient and once we feel ready for that (which we don't yet).

Ben, do you just clean them with water?

We are pulling the tin off the roof next week to put some super insulation up there too before the panels go up. We have log fire heating in the house for winter (and we have a chainsaw) and just one small air conditioner in one room, but just wanting to reduce that useage a bit.

I'm really looking forward to my blue toothed power information each day

Today I have just photographed my roof and meter box and send them to the installer. So....waiting....waiting.

Vic

[Drumstruck]

This thread deserved resurrection - well done.

So, how about a half-way solution - a bank of batteries that gets charged up overnight (using cheaper off-peak grid power) and runs the studio (and/or house) in the daytime?

You've got me thinking more about wind power too as the wind rarely stops here......

Also got me wondering what ever happened to the "aluminium / seawater" battery that was supposed to be the clean battery source for the future (back in the 70s) - probably no money in it.....

And there's no need to worry about global warming - overpopulation will decimate humans in the not-too-distant-future. Check out studies on drosophila overpopulation and what happens when saturation point is reached.

and yes, I'm totally negative and have very good reason to be so

[Ben M]

Ben, do you just clean them with water? Vic

I just use warm water and a dash of all purpose cleaner or dishwashing liquid (and a window washing squeegee thingy on a pole).

I'm really looking forward to my blue toothed power information each day

Vic

It's great to have this kind of info available. I play a little game with mine...always guessing before I read it to see how in tune I am with the system.


Also pretty interested to know more about the newer AC solar panels.

[The Tasmanian]

Sorry Ian - you couldnt be more wrong about not having to worry about climate change...
overpopulation is a completely separate issue to companies (governments) putting the interests of business above the near term survival of most species.

http://www.ecoshock.info/2012/11/kevin- ... l-you.html

[Drumstruck]

Sorry Ian - you couldnt be more wrong about not having to worry about climate change...
overpopulation is a completely separate issue to companies (governments) putting the interests of business above the near term survival of most species.

http://www.ecoshock.info/2012/11/kevin- ... l-you.html

Do you mean that climate change is going to kill me before overpopulation change does? That's a relief.

But the 2 issues are closely linked as one drives the other (and I'm talking about human driven climate change, not nature and geological time based climate change).

[The Tasmanian]

unfortunately all these life changing issues are colliding, whilst the majority of us are are hypnotized watching TV.

[Manning]

Do you mean that climate change is going to kill me before overpopulation change does? ).

Look on the bright side - climate change could easily solve the overpopulation issue. A few wandering mosquitos... problem solved.