POP QUIZ - vinyl pressing in australia

by **wez** » Wed Jun 17, 2009 3:47 pm

Vinyl Factory v. Zenith... first hand experiences?

cheers, wez

by **vanderlae** » Wed Jun 17, 2009 5:12 pm

I don't wish to denigrate the operation, and certainly they are providing a service which is reasonably affordable in a market that presents few options, however first hand reports from (some) labels who have used Zennith report that the stock is hit and miss in comparison to the operation as formerly run. I have come across dissatisfaction from people in my dealings. Others say they're okay. Will keep the specifics off-air so to speak as again I respect them for providing a service in an area where there should be trophies given, but PM me if you want to chat more about first hand experience.

Vinyl Factory on the other hand I've heard nothing but good reports. I know some who've made the switch to them and love it. Stock vinyl product is very good, they have EMI (UK) engineers on site (I'm told) and they send the masters over to EMI UK and then back again before pressing on their EMI 1400 presses here. More expensive, but you know what you are buying will sit on someone's shelf for decades. Industry would lend towards Vinyl Factory. Zennith are an alternative if you are $$ conscious. In saying that, both will do custom quotes depending on the job. Any more, PM me.

--------------------
Spall

by **wez** » Wed Jun 17, 2009 5:24 pm

thanks, have PM'd

and yes, i agree that anyone doing vinyl should be encouraged and applauded! no need for anyone to bag either company... first hand good vibes are more than enough!

rick are you cutting acetates yet?

by **rick** » Wed Jun 17, 2009 5:30 pm

we use vinyl factory , and have no problems , that said chris from zenith , just introduced him self to me online last night in fact !
so this post is wierd
he seems like a great guy , he understands whats what and what .

i would not run a pressing plant even for a single day , bloody thankless task that one

by **toddd** » Wed Jun 17, 2009 5:38 pm

i agree with spall,

zenith can be real hit n miss. i know some who have had a pleasurable and well priced experience and others who have been left record-less and chasing around for months. And i also don't want to bag them, just relating some experiences. (totally agree with rick too, me thinks running a pressing plant would be a rather sleepless job..)

just got a pressing back from vinyl factory. pretty spot on sound wise.

i'm friends with the band and the contact with the vinyl factory folks was really good, they did them a deal a month after they had stopped advertising it on their site because we hadn't finished the record yet. things like that make them good to deal with. they are more exxie than other places (i had a horror experience with a company in the uk last year - cutters in england, pressing in france and all drama you could imagine that entails. it was cheap though, but not cheap enough to justify the phone calls to people who conveniently don't speak great english when they decide you owe them 500 more euros than they quoted..) Needless to say a call to Sydney and interstate shipping is preferable - also supporting a company doing recorded music a good deed.

all in all, worth the little bit extra. vinyl factory seem willing to go the extra distance to keep a good rep, i like those sort of people.

by **DrAlienSmith** » Thu Jul 30, 2009 11:43 pm

sorry to revive an old post but this topic has been very interesting to me.

In the past year there has been such a revival in interest in pressing vinyl in the Perth music scene, especially punk/harcore/rock. I'm getting 3 or 4 enquiries a month from people asking me who to go to.

I'm not sure whats going on with Zenith. I understand its a tough assignment, pressing vinyl, and I don't want to badmouth anyone either but 4 month waits, losing masters, I've had it all. I really want them to do well, their prices are good and they do smaller runs than VF which is handy, but from the outside it seems to be chaos there.

Any good news stories?

by **Adam Dempsey** » Tue Aug 11, 2009 10:08 am

Vinyl Factory, all the way. With lacquers cut at Abbey Road from high res supplied masters.
7", 12"... never had a problem.

by **wez** » Tue Aug 11, 2009 10:40 am

yes i should update this post by saying we went with vinyl factory after hearing very positive things about them, and they certainly came highly recommended by adam (and tony), who did the mastering for the single.

the pressings are due any day now, will report back when i've had a listen. many thanks for all opinions and recommendations!

cheers, wez

by **Stephen C** » Wed Aug 12, 2009 9:53 pm

[quote] Vinyl Factory v. Zenith... first hand experiences? [/quote]

Ahhh yes! First hand experience at Vinyl Factory... To the point of burning my hands on the stampers and hot vinyl! ...Worked there for a few weeks... but trying to hold down two jobs at once (this was my secondary job) was a bit much and couldn't continue... I love mechanical engineering where it meets sound engineering (two of my three 'trades') so end of great job :(

Andy Cuddihy (Proprietor) is a mechanical engineering genious with a passion for vinyl and takes very good care of his machines and more importantly your records. He has a very good attitude and good understanding of successful production engineering processes. And yes he was trained in the UK by the designer of the most reliable and successful record press ever produced, the EMI 1400. Vinyl Factory Australia has strong ties with Vinyl Factory UK and Abbey Road so a good pool of experience right there.

Was a great experience working there, wish circumstances would've let me continue...

Oh and they use top quality new vinyl.

And when I worked there, yes VFA did do short runs. (No minimum order I believe) And of course they send you test pressings for approval before the production run.

by **mossboss** » Fri Oct 30, 2009 10:45 pm

Hi all here
I am Chris From Zenith
Have read this thread for a while now Decided to join this rather exclusive forum.So I got the seal of approval to get on which is not a bad thing in my view, as lots of forums are rather "sloppy"
I wish to make it known that we do our hardest to provide a service for the vinyl market
The issue is that most people do not really understand the process what it takes to get a vinyl record out.That is OK I don't think it is really a requirement at all. A band a label or whoever wants a record pressed, that is al. It should not be the case that they should know what it entails
Rick has summed it up extremely well when he said that it is a "thankless task"
I love it We don't do it for money as we do not make any, so any one that is making money out of this game, the music industry that is, may let me know the secret
There is no point in me in getting into a VF v Z issue here or anywhere else for that matter. Been down that path It was not a good thing
However it is the nature of the industry to ride on another man's donkey pony racehorse or whatever. So what if it is done at Abbey road? That makes it good or it must be GOOD! Really we are not good enough here? Not sure about this
I don't know, I have seen post's in places where the place was refferd to as "Shabbey road" with one of the guys there going out of his way so as to retrieve the bad vibes caused by the poster
Big deal either way Forums are notorious for that kind of stuff It is not the point at all There is enough talent as well as knowhow right here
For the record (excuse the pun)
The VF does the simplest part of the whole process Press the record on a couple of presses
The music tracks are send O/S over the net the plates are made there they are flown out here and it is than pressed in good old Sydney in Aussie land So much for that "analogue warmth" Digital masters digital transfers digital conversion into the lathe digital delay line Is it really true?
Hey I am not bagging any one check it out
Now, here at Zenith we do the lot we cut acetates we make plates we press we have some in house printing we are in the process of getting a large machine so as to do record covers in full colour both 7"s and 12"s so as to bring the price down even further There are a couple of auto machines on their way so as to cut down labour cost's so we can achive a really low cost base
We can read 2" tape 1" or 1/4" the good old CD and we try to minimise as much as it is possible the DA steps, as a rule only 1 conversion here if it is on a CD otherwise it is an analogue input chain
So we are pushing along so as to keep this medium alive as long as possible despite the problems of which there are plenty
We run the only Neumann VMS Cutting Lathe in this country apart from Gill's that sits in his lounge room that does not do commercial work
It is fully loaded with all the best Analogue modules in the Neumann console made for the lathe
We make the pressing plates we press the records on very old equipment as none of this stuff has been made since the early 80's and we are here with a few young fellows picking up the game so it keeps going
Yes we have a few people that are pi..ed off but we also have a lot that are not We are getting up to master no around the 4000 odd so it is a lot of stuff we have done
At the end of the day both plants here in this country as well as anywhere in the world will have issues with production at some time or another with vinyl records regardless of how hard they try
We will not overcharge we will listen to fair complaints we always aim to do the right thing and in my view so far so good
And if any one wants to try His hand at it the door is wide open So as another guy well known in the UK for Vinyl production says it is the "The Vinyl Truth" and any one can have first hand experience of the process right here in sunny Melbourne
Long first post :)
Cheers

by **13thbeach** » Fri Oct 30, 2009 11:26 pm

.......and that was just the first post. haha! You just earned yourself a box of vovos.

by **vanderlae** » Sat Oct 31, 2009 1:01 am

Hi Chris,

I don't think anyone is out to put down the service, on the contrary - everyone is in support of the medium and process - rather the poster was initially asking for first hand experiences here and that is the basis of the feedbacks. You won't find too many folk commenting without a direct experience and if they did I wouldn't pay too much attention to it. It seems that in this case the poster went with VF in the end after looking into it which is fair enough.

Best,

by **wez** » Sat Oct 31, 2009 10:41 am

Hi Chris

Welcome, great to hear from you! As Rick and I have both said, anyone doing vinyl is our hero, so big ups to you!

Your passion is obvious from both your post and your reputation.

I am planning to do a LOT more vinyl in future so I sure we will be talking at some point. Having more than one service provider is not only good for everyone but is essential if the industry is going to survive. It's the only way to ensure higher standards, and to make sure people are staying local and not going offshore... which is inevitable if there is no competition or choice.

Looking forward to meeting you at some point, and working with you in the future.

Cheers, Wez

by **Chris H** » Sat Oct 31, 2009 10:58 am

Great to have another Chris on the forum.

by **mossboss** » Mon Nov 02, 2009 11:54 pm

Hey all
This is a good forum I want my VoVos!!!!!
Thanks guys all is good really Healthy competition is good and it is necessary This is a place where people can certainly exchange views whatever that view may be
It is just a bit of a pain when you really tried your best and the job turns into the proverbial To add salt to the wounds you may have to also put up with getting bagged
Such is life
My biggest gripe is the printing of covers we get stunk by the printers like you wouldnt believe we as such most of the time subsidise the printing part of the job in so far as covers are concerned No choice
However we got the label part down fine pat
It causes some delays which is avoidable of course but who wants to pay that much extra money for labels
What we do is get all the jobs an A2 sheet with about 12-15 jobs on it send it to the printers and share the cost amongst the jobs
So instead of people paying $300-400 for say 500 labels 250 each a and b it is likely to be about $80 for full colour labels
The delay is caused by the fact that there may be only say 8 jobs in a couple of weeks so there may be another week or so before it gets off to the printers
Any one who wants a print run for his labels alone he is wearing the cost of the machine setup which is bloody high
The press runs at 10,000 sheets an hour but it takes an hour and a half to make ready When the thing is setup the guy turns it on checks it if OK He goes for a piss comes back and turns it off that is about 500 sheets
We have passed this cost saving on straight of the top If all goes well we may have our own in house 4 colour machine this year so we can bring the price of vinyl record covers down the aim is to be around the price of a good qlty Digi Pack
We are also well on the way of putting together a "Tour Pack" which will be say 150 x 7" Singles, 30 good quality printed T shirts up to 4 colours, 250 posters some hand out leaflets and 50 beer can holders or caps with the bands artwork All done in house Good merch is what bands need now days so we will do our bit in a one stop shop The T shirt dudes are there already and pumping them out
So we will se how far we get with all of these, so far so good
Is this a blatant Plug? Well I sincerely hope not Just letting people here know what we are up to
Do I get more VoVo's????
Cheers

by **vanderlae** » Tue Nov 03, 2009 3:52 am

Million miles an hour there Chris

I would like to think that on this forum you can tell it like it is, so don't hold back there - always keen to hear from the horse's mouth.

p.s. just saw the wagons tonight, again. That Henry - what a performer!

by **DwaneHollands** » Tue Nov 03, 2009 8:58 am

Hi Chris.

When you say you're getting your own 4 colour machine I do hope you mean it's a digital machine, not an offset lithographic printing press. The reason I say that is I have my own printing company and I wouldn't wish the offset printing process on my worst enemy. Running a press and getting acceptable quality is a high skill level job. It also requires prepress service with either a computer-to-film device or a computer-to-plate device. Again prepress is another trade in addition to press operator. Some would argue higher skill than press operator. Maintenance, chemistry, feeding paper all pretty crazy stuff.

If you are gettiNg a digital printer (such as a desktop printer of some sort) just be aware of "cracking". Laser based systems fuse toner (in full colour yes) to the substrate. However when handled or folded can crack leaving unsightly White crevases. There are ways to overcome such as coating it with a varnish. Or celloglazing with a plastic film. Although these desktop printers are click and print, some of them can be quite unreliable. You may have to pay a click charge for every piece you print. This sometimes covers consumables and maintenance.

Now don't get me wrong, I'm not trying to drum up work for myself. We couldn't offer you any better value than what you're currently getting. That's a pretty good price and again we couldn't do it any faster. Actually longer, since we would have to ship it. I'm in Darwin, Northern Territory)

also with your current workload of print orders. Say 4-8 per week would probably not justify the cost of owning a machine. Barely at 10x that workload. What I would recommend is finding a tip notch digital print house that maybe has an iGen or Nexpress and who do varnishing of the finished piece. They print on a3 which reduces the amount of orders you need before a press run.

Honestly it may still depend on how much they charge aswell. But it would save you investing in a nightmare and perhaps get you much faster turnaround.

by **mossboss** » Fri Nov 06, 2009 1:43 am

Hi There all and Dwayne
Well it is like this We need at least a 660 x 520 so as to do album covers
The closest we got in digital was a KEB or KBE Heidelberg for a misserable $550,000.00 Delivered to Melbourne We looked at the tin and it was empty so we gave this machine a miss Arghhhh
I could not agree with you more but it is an offset 4 colour and it is a good machine A Man Roland 100 / 4 with perfecting, this was dear enough any way
We do have a digital press but it is limited to 7" covers and light weight ones at that but it is an excellent way to print besides the quality is amazingly good
We call it the photocopier on steroids
We also have a small 2 colour Hamada for similar work as well as a large Heidelberg cylinder for forme cutting as well as the proverbial guilotine and paper drills etc
Just arrived is a smaller platten press for the 7" forme cutting and another again platten press so we can do embossed covers and inserts
So as you can see your kind words of advise to which I fully concur with it is TO late I am afraid
We do have a good tradesman on board to run the presses and a CTP outfit near by so we will be OK (I think)
In so far as digital printing goes it is absolutelly useless for labels as you well pointed out it crazes besides the "inks" are cooked on at a lower temp than the pvc on the records so it just turns them into the proverbial S..t or labels printed on them rip the stampers to bits as the ink glues it self on them which it will do at around the 160 C I know I did it I wont do it again
Any way it is what it is we figured out that it goes something like this
1 Artwork arrives Check it out around 15 minutes
2 Get it to the printers Around 1 hour round trip including the "chat time"
3 Return to check proofs Around another 1 hour
4 Pick up job Another 1 hour or so
5 Take it to the forme cutters This is painfull 1.5 Hours
6 Pick up from forme cutters 1 hour
7 Best bit Sit down or stand up and glue them Up 150 covers around 3 hours if your any good 4 hours average
(Done after working hours is best 2 of you and around a slab of Coopers ale red so they still get glued square any more than that Not good)
8 Total up the time?Don't do it or the sanity will kick in and no more covers Charge the client for all this? It is a vinyl record after all and it has to be at a reasonable price to them
So why do you do all this? Here is the dilema
Any way if any one here can point me to a Winkler and Dunebier Helios 802/3 machine I would be his friend for life They have not being made since 1970-5 but they are a marvelous machine to do the gluing up of the covers in
I am sure some of them are running around but the look like early Toyotas or 102 B Datsun's (scraped)
I am affraid it is a necessity for us and the vinyl game to have inhouse printing The provision for doing posters as well as other music related printing work will also be a bit of an advantage we think Only time will tell
Cheers
Those VoVo's!

by **Stephen C** » Wed Nov 18, 2009 12:04 am

Shabbey Road?

http://www.abbeyroad.com/_static_files/ ... _Specs.pdf

(note: analogue mastering record/playback facilities)

http://www.abbeyroad.co.uk/engineers/

by **mossboss** » Sat Jul 13, 2013 7:05 pm

Hi guys
Old thread not sure if it needs the final word on it but I thought It may be appropriate
Well here we are still here pressing away still doing our bit unlike the other party on the pop quiz who has left the scene
As most people interested in vinyl would know VF has called it a day quite a while ago
I visited the plant with a view in taking it over but it just did not happen for a variety of reasons
The two presses have been returned to the UK the rest of the gear I believe has been dispersed here there and everywhere or if I was to believe the rumours some one has taken it up with a view in setting up a pressing plant
And the reason that they called it a day? Passion run out when the red ink started to become painful
Why would any one after all the effort putting it together so as to get the plant up and running pulls the pin on it if it made a profit
We are ok just moved to new premises with a couple of auto machines getting installed our faithful Alpha toolex machines still press away in the mean time with quite a few records getting out weekly
It is strange that with the surging demand on vinyl there are plants which do close down ie EKS in Brooklyn NY has called it quits as well as a couple of other plants in Europe
Any way I do not see that we would be doing such thing as pull the pin we will be here as long as my so and so is pointing to the ground and even after that there's is a young bloke coming in who is going to keep I going no doubt about that
The sad thing about it is there will be no more pop quizzes Z v VF around forums Surely it takes away a bit of fun as well as a certain amount of challenge
Such is life
Cheers

POP QUIZ - vinyl pressing in australia

POP QUIZ - vinyl pressing in australia

Record Pressing and All of that

Vinyl Records

Printing

Re: POP QUIZ - vinyl pressing in australia

Who is online