Using old gear to produce a "certain" sound.

[Mickstape]

Hi guys n girls,

I recently picked up some 80's gear, real cheap n nasty stuff off evil bay and i'd like to firstly pick some brains and then get some reviews on the sound.

Ok so i bought a Fostex 4 track tape recorder, its a cool looking device for the time <IMO> and i'd like to track some stuff for a <i can hear the groans already> "hip hop" mixtape of some stuff i have. I also bought a old yamaha console, its an 8 track EM-150 and looks really cool and grungy but as i havnt actually used it yet i really don't know how it sounds.

Now i'm not really that familiar with the frequency rolloffs of cassette nor am i sure of what type of tape to buy and as for how i would ensure that the sub 100Hz stuff actually gets translated onto the tape properly, well thats a mystery to me also. I'm trawling GS and a few other places to try and get some info as i type but no luck yet. From what i've read the tape will compress and roll off the high end. As for the rest of the freqs well thats what i want to find out.

My plan of attack is to send the drum tracking directly out of the ensemble into track one, the bass into track two and then try and get the mid/high mid stuff on track three and then the high mid/high stuff on track four. Now im wondering when i dub the vocals, should i dub directly to the tape or track into logic then dub onto either track 3 or 4. Is my plan of tracking like this the right way to go about it?

Its certainly an experiment for me, i reckon its either going to sound shit or really really shit lol.

Any tips or hints to get it working nice are appreciated as always.

I'll have a go at it, i've got some old tdk tapes that are still in the plastic so i'll post a result up soonish.

[lumbago]

Many of the Fostex tape units from the 1980s had Dolby C as a mandatory part of the signal chain, and that was also responsible for some EQ limitations, as well as some pumping. The high ends weren't great, and the tape noise was an issue.

If someone held a gun to my head, I'd record the track to tape, and to disk at the same time. Then copy the analog signal into the disk alongside. You may have to edit to sync the two tracks, owing to the reliability of a 20+ year old servo motor's pitch, but you'd at least have the comparison you need. Use whatever's useful. Watch out for phase cancellation.

Another idea would be to get hold of something nice and analog-like and track through that instead. In the budget class you can use devices like the RNP or even an Avalon U5 or a Neve-alike module - and warm up the signal that way. Failing that, an exciter plug-in and a Tape simulator plug-in in a recording package might give you something of what you want also.

Another source of analog processing might be the mic preamp stage of an old reel-to-reel tape unit. If you pad them right, or use a DI, you can use them as effects, as I think Rick O'Neill once mentioned in AT mag.

[Mark Bassett]

Hi lumbago, please place your real name in your signature of your posts. Thanks.

[Mickstape]

Cool thanks for your post Lumbago.

I think i may have confuzzled some people with the way i worded my post.

What i mean by sending different signal to tracks is that i have already got the renders so i basically want to send the tracks out of my laptop and in to the tape inputs via the ensemble and then press record and track the signal source to tape.

Your mention of the phase cancellation was a good point though, i hadnt thought it would be an issue, and as for the old servos well as i havnt tracked with it i hadnt factored that in either.

And i must confess, i got a little excited when i saw Mark had posted, i thought i was going to get a super duper industry secret, alas it was not to be.

I would have settled for , "give it up Mick, foxtex tape recorder + hiphop = you are shit out of luck."

Mebbe next time.

[Futureman]

Not 100% sure what you are after, but if you want a easy way to get a sort of 'tape' sound, buy a old pro S/H tape deck that has the ability to monitor off the 'repro' head..

If you slap in a cassette, hit record, the signal you will hear will be about 50-100ms later, but you will be hearing the sound coming off tape.
The cool thing is that you can play with the tape speed, input levels etc and instantly hear the sonic changes.. good for squashing drums, like in a hip-hop track.

something like this.

http://cgi.ebay.com.au/Tascam-112-Maste ... 3ca7469d9d

[lumbago]

Hopefully this shows my real name. My reply was in good faith.

Steve Smith

[lumbago]

Hopefully my name now shows in my "signature" text.

[Mark Bassett]

Thanks lumbago

[Mickstape]

Not 100% sure what you are after, but if you want a easy way to get a sort of 'tape' sound, buy a old pro S/H tape deck that has the ability to monitor off the 'repro' head..

If you slap in a cassette, hit record, the signal you will hear will be about 50-100ms later, but you will be hearing the sound coming off tape.
The cool thing is that you can play with the tape speed, input levels etc and instantly hear the sonic changes.. good for squashing drums, like in a hip-hop track.

something like this.

http://cgi.ebay.com.au/Tascam-112-Maste ... 3ca7469d9d

thanks Mike.

What would something like this really be worth? Curious thats all.

[Futureman]

dunno.. not much.. Just keep your eyes open for old pro tape decks... $30 - $70 ?

Search for Ta@#$% and Teac.

Regards
Mike