Sample Clearance Services in Aus?

[Text_Edifice]

Hi all,

working on a Hip Hop project ATM and have been given a bunch of tracks by the artist that have been produced by a reasonably well known Australian production team.

Some of these tracks use samples, some are original creations.

I asked the artist the obvious questions re sample clearance and was told that the producers didn't think it was important - i.e. they never did it.

So, my questions.

1) can anyone out there who works with hip hop artists regularly tell me if this attitude is unusual or the norm?

2) as the release is likely going to be independent can you recommend anyone in Aus who does sample clearance?

3) is it best to just drop the tracks now given that clearance costs can be prohibitive?

Cheers.

[no-fi]

hip hop people I've known just sample what they want however they want to, and nobody ever noticed or complained.

but they're all small fish.

Seems to me, the only people who ever got sued for using samples are people who made a lot of money (and in the case of the verve with bittersweet symphony, apparently they got sued even AFTER trying to do the "right thing" paying and clearing the sample!!)

realistically - how many CDs and mp3 downloads are you looking at selling here? it's probably not worth the time and money to chase all the legals up..... because the money someone could make from suing probabluy isn't worth them persuing a lawsuit... I suggest you could just release it, and if it does become a massive hit and you get sued for all the profits of the release, then at least it was good publicity.

[jkhuri44]

text,

attitudes towards sampling in hiphop and in electronic music generally are lax.

this is more so when the samples are obscure.

proceed the way you want, best idea is to clear samples.

I would imagine you clear the samples by contacting labels of sampled artists?

[jkhuri44]

i've heard other people that get the artists to sign a form...which states that the artists/producers sign and are liable for any sampling they have done,

does this sound familiar to anyone ...im not aware of the specifics here.

[Text_Edifice]

I think best option at the moment is for the artist to get the producer to provide something in writing saying they are liable if anyone sues - but not sure it'll hold up (actually basically sure it won't) in court.

Realise that it's possible to approach labels directly but was wondering if there was an equivelant of www.sampleclearance.com in Australia?

I'm not keen to do the legwork so would prefer to send them to someone that can advise them directly.

Julian - agree that the general consensus seems to be 'the publicity from getting sued is worth more than the plaintiff would make". This doesn't make it right though...

[Thirteen]

The ULTIMATE sample track of all time....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QMk7MvTc ... r_embedded

[no-fi]

i've heard other people that get the artists to sign a form...which states that the artists/producers sign and are liable for any sampling they have done,

I think this was one of the terms in our license to our label when we put an album out.

kinda hazy though, it was a while ago.

(and yeah, there are uncleared samples in it!)

[lumbago]

Would AMCOS or APRA be able to advise on or grant a mechanical licence?

http://www.apra-amcos.com.au/

This is probably the best way - as long as you can ascertain the source reliably.

Another option would be contacting the publisher or record label.

[Text_Edifice]

Hey Steve,

APRA not so helpful – they'll collect the mechanicals but that doesn't help with clearing a sample.

In fact there websites only advice I could find re sampling was:

Samples

You may not use a sound recording as a sample either from another recording to use in your own recording or to provide to someone else to use as a sample. This requires permission directly from the copyright owner in the musical work and the record company that owns the copyright in the sound recording.

[no-fi]

This doesn't make it right though...

right schmight.

paying licensing doesn't protect you anyway.

http://blogs.sun.com/plamere/date/20050414



at the end of the day we're talking derivitive works that differ a lot from the original recordings. mechanical copyright wasn't even ABOUT this kind of thing when it was written.... I think it was to stop bootlegging whole albums or songs... - Now it's just being used by pathetic greedy parasite pigs to gouge even more money into their awful tacky pathetic superficial lives.

but yeah... do what you feel is right for you..


PS, speaking of opportunistic arseholes with lawyers.... anyone here know any of the people from larrikin music involved with this men at work lawsuit??

[no-fi]

The ULTIMATE sample track of all time....

here's some of my favourites....

negativland - U2
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z6gPSSYxex0

ECC - I want a cookie
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fMQFquIPhLs



and here's some more... youtube is easy to spend hours on.....

negativland - why is this commercial
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UOAPtVjLj-k


ECC - rocked by rape
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4DX4nsobHW8

[Chinagraf]

Hi Dave, sample clearance is the responsibility of the producer. I've always had it in any contracts I've had with majors or larger indy labels. If you're not the producer it's really not your problem.

[Text_Edifice]

Thanks Andy,

this is my understanding too but as the project has developed I've ended up producing a few tracks myself as well as reworking arrangements etc. as part of the vocal production. As is often the case production has been a collaborative process and the album (even individual tracks) will include credits for a number of parties. So my concern here is where my responsibility ends for the tracks that I haven't created but which I may have done vocal production for and also how sample clearance issues might affect the artist. This last point is my main concern as with most indie production jobs I do I feel a responsibility for the artists that I work with as they often don't have the smarts or experience to anticipate or deal with these types of issues.

[Chinagraf]

Dave, as a producer you do need to cover your own ass. I understand the helping the artist thing, but if they are bring ing you tracks you have no way of ascertaining their origin. Possibly bad scenario is one of the guys uses some sample and the others don't know and you don't get told, but haven't worded an agreement that sample clearance is the responsibility of the artist. Artist get's sued and says "No, Dave was the producer, not us, he should have said we couldn't use it"etc.
Smartest move is to have a blanket agreement that sample clearance is not your responsibility. If you think about it along the lines of teaching the indy artist how things really work, then you are in fact helping them by making them do the work..

[Text_Edifice]

If you think about it along the lines of teaching the indy artist how things really work, then you are in fact helping them by making them do the work..

Thanks Andy,

good advice, and this brings me back to the original question re sample clearing services in Aus that I can direct the artist to. ;-)

Will get the artist to sign a blanket agreement and will encourage them to get something in writing from the producers of the suspect tracks to the effect that they are responsible for clearing any samples they have supplied to us as tracks.