SOLD - Please Delete

[HA_DA_JA]

They look very special.
Well done on the projec.
when do we see the slide show from India?

[mylesgm]

$5000? like $5000 real dollars?

I'm sorry angus but that seems to me completely outrageous. And from a guy who kept pushing me to do cheap deals I think its really uncool.

and for others who question the price check out awave rrp...

http://www.awave.com.au/product_info.ph ... 21dc9e2628

Though I do have to agree they look excellent and yes Rob does great, detailed and fantastic looking work.

M

[Chris H]

For some reason the pics are not visible on moi computer. I'm using firefox???

[mylesgm]

ah yes my 'vintage' components need so much work that they are worth nothing and vintage 'neve' components are worth gold dust. Clearly I do have some experience in that area as you well know, look at my own equipment. But Atlantis has been selling Neve mic pre's on ebay fully modified and racked for modern use with 'real' vintage neve transformers, for 600-700 per channel, a pair of BAE 1272's can be had landed from the usa for around 1800-2000. 5000 seems like crazy profiteering.

And as regards carnhill transformers. Please point to me the difference between your using modern carnhills and everybody else using modern carnhills? Neve AMS uses carnhill transformers too...

B283 boards are $85, classic neve transformer output $110, classic input transformer $125 from dan alexander
vu meter and buffer $45, go between kit and DI kit $65 from JLM
Gain and Switching system, 220 from JLM if you used that kit

$650 per channel

power supply no more than 100

case 2-300

under 3000...

Rob's work, well it looks great and I'm sure it works flawlessly.

So whats your mark up?

[HA_DA_JA]

And there it is - the magic little word "profit".

It is always hard to know how much profit is little or very little.
I am selling my studio foam that I won so how much is too much.

I guess all you can do is do what Angus is doing a list a price and go from there.

Obvious this rack is not what most of us are looking for but for some of us it might just be the ticket.
I guess we just need to let the market decide.
Good luck with the sale I know that everyone needs money at Xmas and especially with kids on school holidays.

[mylesgm]

ah yes build my own unit.... um I did. you saw it. now it doesn't have VU's but otherwise it's completely 'real' vintage. I t has 70db of gain and sounds fantastic, looks great and came in way less than yours. way less.
Oh and finding parts? I bought the whole models on this amazing thing we have called ebay. Was interested in a set of pre's did a 'search' and found them. when I needed an extra faceplate I emailed dan alexander, he mailed it to me the next day for the grand sum of $80.

Pretty difficult really.

As to profit making... well I don't have a problem making a profit within reason. But I feel that someone who pushes for cheap bargains and then posts high prices is being unreasonable.

m

[musikwerks]

Interesting back and forth here...

I am looking in the next 2 years to add a much higher end colour grading and effects suite to my business. This has traditionally been exclusively run on Linux and a turnkey system direct from the manufacturer would set me back at least $150k aud. Way out of my range. Just the other day though, the manufacturer announced that they had ported it to Mac OSX and the software was available for $15k usd retail. So by the time I get the biggest, baddest Mac I can (software alone needs 12gig of RAM) and a few i/o peripherals and hard drive arrays I will be looking at $35k all in.

When asked how they arrived at the RRP they were quite open about it.... and said that they thought that's as much as they could get away with. So while I agree Angus's project is expensive in relation to very, very similar products already in the market place, ultimately it will be some end buyer who determines it's true worth. I doubt it will sell at that price but the market will decide how much Angus can "get away with".

Unfortunately for Angus, this particular market is already heavily saturated with more widely known names.

[Ben M]

Shouldn't this post be over in the for sale section?


Anyway, I'm doing a dual 1073 clone (no eq and not 283 boards) with Carnhill input/output transformers for $600 total. Not including the hours of labour and research/ordering ofcourse.
Not the same league I know but their going to be tasty.

Rob, if your out there - you do an awesome job. Thanks for the great work on my AWA mod last week, I used it on a mix and some tracking this week and it sounds F#!%*!*$ hot. Cheers

:)

[HA_DA_JA]

Ben what makes it a 1073 clone?

[musikwerks]

At the risk of becoming a TR forums pariah....

Neve Shmeve I say. Vintage or not. There's a tonne of great gear out there that sound similar, within acceptable tolerances, for waaaaay less.

[Ben M]

Ben what makes it a 1073 clone?

Oh, Hi Dale

I guess because the boards are based on the 1073 but aren't really Neve boards. They were manufactured by a guy in the UK and he only had a few PCB's made up for friends, etc.
All the components that I'm putting on them are as close as I can find/afford to the real deal. They are very similar looking to the Seventh Circle N72. Anyway clone or not, I'm having fun.

cheers :)

[Linear]

i'm not sure if you've lumped me into the category of 'attackers' but seriously, if you sell that thing to some noob for $5k you're not doing him/her any favours, in fact I think you're ripping them off. and that annoys me.

you could probably buy 4 original 1272's for about $4k, then get rob to rack them up for $1k. and 4 originals will be worth something, 4 neve knockoffs with new transformers will be worth FA, even if it has been racked by everyone's favourite tech (rob is a legend). have you ever seen people selling 1272 clones on the bay? they never fetch even a quarter of an original's price.

the BA boards don't mean squat if you ask me, a BC184C is a BC184C. most old neves need recapping anyway, so those furry 'vintage' caps would best be swapped out. it's all about the transformers and whether something is original or not. for that sort of money, you could possibly pick up a pair original 1066's or similar, something that actually has some intrinsic value.

Chris

[mylesgm]

Chris, my point exactly. Why do I care if you sell this for 5000 cause I certainly wont be buying? well because the person who'll be buying will be someone who doesn't really know what he/she is getting. It simply perpetuates the vintage or neve or holy grail keeper of the secret flame myth.

As someone who's been ripped off in the past and now has a bit of knowledge and experience in this arena I wish to express my opinion and my disappointment in an industry that seems to grow people happy to rip off others lower down the food chain. Yes I've bought gear cheap and sold it for a profit, yes I've bought gear at retail and sold it as a loss, we all do. But I don't appreciate someone talking up and charging high for something that isn't that special and trading on the hype and reputation to score big dollars off unsuspecting people.

If rick finds an old neve desk in superb condition and then sells that off to the highest bidder that seems fair, the object is of high value. The latest console sale here is an excellent example of a better model. He or associates bought it recently at an ABC auction for a 'sold as seen' condition and definitely at a lower price than the onsale. The second purchaser had the option of exploring the desk with photos, research, actual viewing etc. Rick still sold it under current market value with a price set by the market and a reasonable starting bid. All open and fair to me.


That doesn't ring true about this particular sale and other people seem to agree with my point of view. others will agree your point of view and there we go, healthy exchange of ideas.

And further I don't know who you spoke to regarding the pieces I had available but I sold you a trimax valve pre which you raved about once rob racked it up. The transformers I had for sale were the same quality could be used for any number of applications and required little skill or know how to use. Its pretty easy to use a transformer to turn an unbalanced out into a balanced out with these transformers, or to make a great sounding DI box. I've done both and 30-50 is certainly a fair price for a high quality vintage transformer.


M

[Mark Bassett]

Shouldn't this post be over in the for sale section?

Yes, it has been moved.

[Chris H]

To give you some credit Angus, there are no monkey's ( or squirrels) wizzing into the wind ......and no emocons, but this forum is a community of individuals with a common interest. Most have been in the game for a good decade or more and know the terrain well.
You do seem to have a knack of being somewhat belligerent in your presence here. An example, you have changed your avatar, and to me it comes across as a statement of "up yours" to those who posted on that other contentious thread re the image and what it communicates to them. I for one admire the way some forum members here are holding up a mirror so you can see how you are coming across in this community. I don't see anyone flaming you, rather responding to some obvious issues you present in your posts here. They are just telling it how it is and when all is said and done, you can take it or leave it.

[Linear]

Aren't you the guy pimping golden age pre's?

From memory they're about $500 each. Get 4, that's $2k. Buy some carnhills of the internot (let's say $600?) and you're looking at around $2600. I'd recommend this to people as good value (chinese manufacturing moral issues aside).

$5k for 4 neve knockoffs? I would tell people to avoid this like the plague.

And Rob doesn't have anything to do with this really - it's your project, Rob just charges for his time on your instructions. If I were to build a $5 million house in macquarie fields, would I blame the builder for overcapitalising?

so $5k is too much, I couldn't care if god himself built the pre, it's still bad value. if you manage to sell it to someone with perceived nevecloneitis, then that someone has been ripped off (in my opinion anyway).

Chris

[musikwerks]

Angus, this is not intended to flame you....

Chris H is right in what he says about the TR forum community. The fact you changed your Avatar to that of your Sugar Daddy is more evidence that you don't understand the ethos of the forum.

To say that you're not too worried only inflames the situation even more.

The fact that you think your postings here will have "little or no bearing" on your career and business again reinforces the idea that you just don't get it. It's impacting both of those things far more than you realise and it's impacting them negatively.

No one here really cares how big the other guys wang is. We all just do what we do because we love it and if we can make a living out of it then that's great.

Maybe I have a different perspective these days but all the bullshit that gets argued about in the audio world just does not matter. It's not about gear and helipads and vintage this or that.... it's about people and how you treat them. I've had a crash course in those lessons of late but I can tell you something for sure... I'm better off for it.

Just something to think about if you want to.

[rick]

angus
the neotec is a classic example of the way things work around here
sure we bought it cheap and you know what we sold it cheap too
yes there was a healthy profit in there , if you discount the years of effort it takes to be in the right place at the right time to buy it so cheap of course
but it was sold so far under the market value of it outside this clubhouse please dont align what you are doing with the racks you have and the various other things you are putting up for sale with "thats what rick does " it clearly not
it was clearly represented for what it is - and it is a great thing


the guy that bought it actually rang me and offered me more money ( a lot more ) before he joined our clubhouse but i didnt go down that path
and he ran head to head with whoever wanted it here to find its market rate around here

your neves will find their market rate , but around here the market rate for that rack is $2500-800
which i dont think would even cover your costs - thems is the brakes
thats why your getting heat from guys that know about this stuff


i dont have to tell you the amount of guys that say " to me if you ever find a quality gear just let me know "
i am not actually a 2nd hand dealer and i walk away from so many things that are not my thing or not worth my time
hell would freeze over before i commisioned rob to do what you have done with those $80 boards

that said i have had him rack up my share of wacky ideas that ended up being the wrong idea - i have on sold them at a loss
and learn a bit from my folly - thems is also the brakes

me thinks you will too - these are not vintage neve anything i am afraid thats why the heat is coming your way
well aside from the heliport post - i just dont understand why you posted that press release its weird


i think what you are not seeing angus and why you getting stuff chucked at you by the other members is that this little cave is not actually just an internet forum it is MY internet forum

there are years of a bunch of guys cutting through the crap and just exchanging what they know , to others that dont know .. for no reward except hanging around and see whats next - we all learn stuff here
its a symbotic thing

i love robs work , cannot rate it high enough
but there is no vintage neve mojo going on in your devices , no justification for the flag price other then you paid a hell of a lot to get something made that you wanted made , its bespoke audio gear , that comes at a price
but your sales pitch is so far of the mark i dont think you can see it

i have had a bunch of mail about the tone of things around here lately , its the strangest position for me to be in and i am personally bewildered by your avatar change

strange days indeed

[Linear]

couldn't help myself... ;-0

Chris

[The Tasmanian]

Thought I'd chip in too
Sorry Angus $5k is waaaaay too much - I nearly choked on my lunch!
Try ebay
with respect

[qiktune]

For what it's worth, I love this kind of back and forth and find it absolutely crucial for "noobs" like myself. Honestly, I am exactly the kind of person that Chris V spoke of in an earlier post....not much experience, wanting to get my hands on some "tasty vintage gear", and had it not been for this thread how would I ever know the difference between what you're ( Angus ) selling and the real deal?

Thanks guys...you all keeping it real is why I lurk here every day.

btw, Angus ( no malice intended - just sayin' as it seems relevant to this thread ) but remember 12 months ago I wanted to buy a piece of UA rack gear from you and you refused to budge on price saying I "couldn't land one here from the US for anywhere near what you were asking" ....well, I had the patience to wait 8 months and managed to land one here for a little more than half of what you were asking. Thanks, you saved me quite a bit of cash. ;-)

[rob]

crikey!

I'm really not sure that just 'cause a guy sticks his chin out, it means everyone passing needs to take a crack.

I reckon there needs to be bit more love on this forum.

It cost Angus a bomb to get these made. And not 'cause i'm an overcharging bastard but because making anything of decent quality, by hand and as a one off is an expensive proposition.

How much do you reckon it cost to make the first prototype Golden Age?

How long do you think it took to layout the artwork for the front panel. Not just for eyecandys sake but so that everything could fit...and believe me it is friggin tight behind that front panel.

Rick understands the cost of whimsical bespoke gear and I'd say that now Angus also understands that.

And to be fair, you can't compare these to four GAPs, or four racked up 3405 modules.

Is the price Angus is asking for them fair...who knows...the market will decide. And quite honestly should someone buy them they'll have four very good mic pres / DIs. Geez, I've seen alot of people spend way more than this on complete crap.

Peace

[mylesgm]

Here's a thought.

You say that most of the angst is generated on your posts. That we are picking on the new guy.

Have a look at the rest of this board, there is some tongue in cheek, there's some really fascinating posts, there's good gear on offer and occasionally there's a disagreement of opinions. All fair enough and, for the most part goodnatured and intelligent. Theres a broad range of engineers/producers/musicians from experienced, professional, even retired to beginner, hobbyists, enthusiasts etc.

I'm a new guy. I've less posts than you and I remember your posts as long as I've been on board. My first post was a for sale post and as I recall rick mentioned that it was some of the best pricing he's seen in awhile and you jumped in immediately asking for (and receiving) a lower price.

Consider that the issue may be not the board, not picking on the 'new guy', not 'keepers of the secret flame', not 'out to get you' consider that there may possibly be some error in your court. In fact I recall at least one thread which degenerated into a flame war in which this idea was discussed. Consider that there may be important lessons to learn here.

And if as has already been pointed out you think that this does not impact on your career or reputation consider that if theres a lesson to be learned that that lesson may develop and strengthen your career more than ignoring the opportunity can damage it.

M

[chribble]

I'm not sure if this is a turtlerock thing, or an Australian thing, but I love how things get way off topic here.
Not in a sarcastic way at all either. It's 100x better than reality TV.

I think the rack is a great idea but yes, I agree with alot of what's being said here.
For 5k I'd want it to be an investment.
For 3k, I'd settle with filling up my SCA rack or something similar like this rack.

That middle ground is tough territory.

I'm new too, please don't hate me.

[jkhuri44]

I'm not sure if this is a turtlerock thing, or an Australian thing, but I love how things get way off topic here.

its the internet. The internet is for thread derailment....reality is for relevance. never forget :P

[Ausrock]

Angus,

This is the first time in 4 1/2 years here that I recall seeing a reaction from members like this and I'll say no more about these pres other than I share the opinions of others.

I had a shot at you some time back regarding your incessant "promotion" of BeezNeez mics, not because I believed the mics were "dodgy" but because you seemed to be out of control in your need to "mention" them at every opportunity whether it was appropriate or not.

Re the Heliport thread.........mate, it would have been far wiser to have just made mention of a new studio being available rather than post that press release. Allan Pease has made his fortune out of telling people "how to help themselves" (ie: what they want to hear), he could easily be construed as being a salesman, a shyster, a snake oil salesman......take your pick.

41yrs heh? Mate, I already had 6 years of playing guitar under my belt by the time you were born........you're still a wet behind the ears youngster with a lot to learn.

[The Tasmanian]

Hi Angus
Just one thought.....
If I was to try to sell most of the things I have bought and had modded or repaired, I would never make "what it owes me"
I suggest buying/modding something to use yourself - thats when you get real value.
I mod/ rebuild things to use and add (sonic) value to my setup for my clients (thats when you make the $ back from the gear)
We are not snobs waiting to beat up on others - we just tell it how it is - and (hopefully) we are all learning new things about our craft, irrespective of our experience.
Also - the Beez neez mic promotion that you have been going on about I am sure is great enthusiasm - but comes across like a used car salesman -
hey, I bought a BeezNeez mic and your continual promotion of them being amazing caught my eye and I found the mic I bought was pretty average - you promote things like they are the best thing in the world, and 2 months later you are getting rid of them.
My final thought's on this matter
Regards

[The Tasmanian]

The Quad Eight console - cost me $7k and I would have spent $70k on it (recapping - custom centre section - neve power supply - Brook powersupply for the centre section etc etc)
Its your for $77k + GST
If you want the Neve - cost $120k - spent probably nearly $50k (recapping - custom centre section as well -new switches etc)
$170k + GST and its yours.
PM me for my bank details

[The Tasmanian]

If you gave me $170K for the console......I would by a be!@#$%^& and go on holidays for a decade - Or buy a Vintage API with 550's - or a SSL E series (unlikely)

[The Tasmanian]

I think if you gradually buy/restore old console modules and get one of Rob,s passive mixers.
This is the future of mixing as you can mix on vintage Neve, API, Quadeight, Electrodyne's AWA's etc all at once.
Passive mix busses sound amazing with the right Eq's on the front end.
Usually - the older the better - simple design - switches still work - hardy any cap's - class A etc etc.

My Quadeight is 42 years old and the stepped switches still work really well - Ive had it for 11 years and it's been used almost every day and night for the last 12 years
My Electrodyne711's are nearly 50 years old and they sound better than most of the vintage gear I've ever heard - And better than anything new that I have experienced.