Motown buyout.

[Mickstape]

I read somewhere that Polygram bought out Motown from universal back in the early 90's, what i'd like to know is how i can find out how much it will cost to acquire the sample clearance rights for any song related to motown. I'm going to look through here <TRF> but i'm lazy and my battery is getting way low.

I heard a Marvin Gaye song turned into a hip slop track with ebonics speaking neanderthals butchering it with their heyyyy hoooo bullshit, i've been working on exactly the same track and i want to know how much jay z or those other f@#$s will make from my track if it turns out the way i want it to.

[jkhuri44]

covering a tune is cheaper than sampling a good part of it, the reproduction rights, or buying rights to the composition from a big artist wouldnt be cheap. the cost depends on ur production run, ie. whether its digi, vinyl release, how long u want the period to be, how many uinits u plan to press, etc

I heard a Marvin Gaye song turned into a hip slop track with ebonics speaking neanderthals butchering it with their heyyyy hoooo bullshit.

u dont need to talk like that about the people who write and record hiphop...if u dont like it, thats cool, but seriously dude, its bloody offensive.

[Ausrock]

It's a free country and Mick's entitled to express his opinion. Oddly enough, I find the manner in which Hip Hop, etc., is "presented" to frequently be offensive so his opinion sits fine with me ;-)

[jkhuri44]

"ebonics speaking"

might as well say black talk.

i never said it was savoury...it just doesnt sound right....yes, hiphop is terribly misogynistic, i agree.

[Mickstape]

did i touch a nerve Jamil. mate if you only knew. unfortunately for the masses i am one of those "hip hoppers" so if my post came across as burning hip hop then oh well.

i produce tracks for quite a few underground acts, i have just finished a collaboration with a group of friends and have our debut aus hiphop launch coming in 6 weeks.

my gripe is that those knobs like timberland, kanye, jay z and the rest, and please note that i did not include KRSOne, P.E, Talib, Dr Dre, Plutonic LAB, M-phazes or any of the REAL "black or white" hip hop artists in there, have spoiled it for everyone with their buying up of licence rights, ruination of the english language and there hopelessly generalistic and dumbed down approach to what hip hop is supposed to be. Kanye and Timberland both are number one on my list as the biggest ego-inflated,under qualified, i got big because i sucked a lot of @#$% to get where i am wankers in the game. if you have any respect for hip hop then you would have to agree.

That said opinions ARE like bumholes and i've just let you know that i have one too.

I'm not here to start a war dude so peace out ok.

heres a link or two

reverbnation.com/mickstapeproductions

myspace.com/mickstapeproductions

its all old stuff on both pages which i need to update, i'm reluctant to post new stuff cuz people like to steal ideas but its hiphop and people jump all over it. if you want to jump onboard let me know lol.

BTW wat sort of music do you produce/write/listen to? I'm genuinely curious man thats all.

[chris p]

BTW wat sort of music do you produce/write/listen to? I'm genuinely curious man thats all.

Jamil's music? Take one part prog rock, add in one part Ravi Shankar and two parts metal, shake with ice and serve with a twist of "if we name our tracks in Latin, that makes it art, doesn't it". Decorate with an inappropriate iPod sticker.

Still luvin' the CD, JK.

[Mickstape]

oh yeh kewlness.

so where can i hear it?

and in regards to getting the sample clearance for one particular track here is the song in its unmixed form, it has a long way to go yet.

The sample is from one of the unsung greats of motown The Four Tops and the title is "Standing in the Shadows of Love" written by Dozier-Holland_Dozier. As i am using pretty much the main riff/phrase and some of the chorus i figure i would really need sample clearance if my dreams of grandeur are ever realised. So yes i am unsure of whether i need D_H_D's permission as they wrote the music and words or if i need universal/polygrams ok as they now own Motown Universal. And i do have some idea of the fiscal nature of sample clearance, something like this would cost around 1k up front i imagine, am i being realistic here or would it be way more than that?

i posted it just for you jamil, feel free to bring your sage advice to the table regarding eq and such, i also posted just in case you wanted to drop some hot spits about the turtlerock forum and how bleak and miserable you would be if your posting rights were revoked. and i DO NOT rap or rhyme by the way, cannot & will not ever. i'm white as they come so i'll leave that up to the "professionals".

but please, no hey hoes or everybody in the house come to my hotel motel holiday innnn. that would just be silly.

and gotta say i do like your signature Chris, i wish i had thought of that one. its me allll over.

http://www.sendspace.com/file/yx6a6r

[heathen]

Hey Mick,

Here are 2 links to Jamil's band, play the jjjunearthed ones, sounds better than the myspace player. Actually I'd say Jamil is the type of guy who could even make sad truckin music sound soulfull and interesting, he does a lot of different styles of music, ummm through not sad truckin music thank f@#$.


http://www.triplejunearthed.com/Artists ... stid=28826

http://www.myspace.com/mandalatheband

An artist I work with "Poet Laureatte" did a track which was sampled from a band distributed here by the same label we were/are on, "Budos Band" I think, anyway PL bought a new album, I forget who by and the rapper had used exactly the same samples from the same band, similar beat, but nowhere near as good as PL's track. PL says f@#$ man listen to this mof@#$in s@#$, mof#$%^er, I say "yes PL I absolutley agree with you, sounds very similar". Anyway I still think PL's version was best, but our label says nahhhh don't use it, already been done.

Moral of the story, don't use samples, make your own cool hooks, much more rewarding. If you do sample find stuff no one else would possibly use. Like say this track we did sampled from "Celibee and the Buzzy Bunch" track Superman. Oh yeah fat. Heh

Hmmmm shit plus our record deal must have ended, can't findf PL's album for sale anywhere online, hmmmm gonna have to re-release it with the other 6 albums we have , heh.

[heathen]

And some twat deleted my "Northern Lights Crew" myspace page, hmmmm maybe another good reason to not use samples. Lucky they did'nt finf the JJJ one, bwahahahaha.

[Mickstape]

cool heathen thanks for the link,

Hey Jamil i just had a listen to the jjj stuff, my fave is the sleep of reason dude, its quite melodic and haunting, kudos there man. without sound narky but i'm guessing you lot really like Adam Jones n Co, shades of lateralus+10000 days in the first two. But yeh thats my kind of music man, i love ambient dark stuff, its the kind of stuff me n the boys jam on after a good night out. Thank god for my me-50 and the gnx3. and really good sound proofing. my neighbours like me a lot more now that they only here us coming into the house at 3am.

As for making your own sounds/hooks/breaks yeh i agree with ya there heath, i have a lot of eclectic tunes that i incorporate my 6 string and fx pedals in, i seem to have more luck using the instrument in this fashion than trying to write straight rock/blues tunes. And i find that because i do it this way its much more enjoyable to pick up the guitar and have a straight b flat blues jam with my drummer mate when he comes around.

So yeh white flag man waving high. Dunno bout that other character though, he seems to not be a liker of the mickstape. Oh well.

[jkhuri44]

mickstape, ur post sounded like u were bitching about african dialects in modern music...if that wasnt ur intention, sorry...such is the internet

not sure why the hate for Timbo or JZ....they've both done some dumb shit, but u seriously cant doubt the talent involved in making some earlier Jay Z, Timberland, Kanye's music. Kanye was a producer at the start of his career. Timbo's work for Aaliyah in particular is so bloody good, not sure what there is to hate about + the style he sorta solidified where east meets west, is great....hiphop changes, and if u dont like whats coming out, thats not really its fault. i personally love the sound of newer electronic styled hiphop....not so much the electro rnb shit, but the more glitchy/808/minimal sub bass stuff coming out...

I make quite a bit of different music, just finished the cd that Heath posted up there....making alot of electronic music too at the moment, none of it finished....but i like too many types of music to even start talking about.

what track did u sample? i wanna hear the original...sounds like you've looped the original and maybe added kick and snares...either way, thats a big part of the original tune....so u'd be charged an arm and a leg, and would prob make no money from releasing it.

[Mickstape]

here is the song in its unmixed form, it has a long way to go yet.

The sample is from one of the unsung greats of motown The Four Tops and the title is "Standing in the Shadows of Love" written by Dozier-Holland_Dozier.

just dust off your old vinyl mate, if you have any good motown that is.

otherwise i can send you a rip but you must excuse the vinylness of it, i have one copy that i do use and one that i will never use. Am i allowed to do that? send you the track i mean?

and yeh i'm still working on the track, i like the guitar riff, i just phase cancelled the vocals in tools and added a simple beat. It will be worked a lot more so its not just the riff with new drums. the horns and sax i recorded at ess a eee sydney as part of a unit project, fits in nicely i think.

getting back to my whinge about kanye and timbaland it stem mainly from the ego's and lack of respect for the musicians they sample. Plus i watched a boobtube movie where timberland walks ya round his studio, its an awesome place, anyway, he is asked what he uses a particular hardware unit for and his reply is "i dunno, i leave that shit for the engineers"
he then rambles in some language about how his beats are so good that he only needs his fantom to make tracks. I mean the guys has probably over a mil worth of hardware in his studio and the only thing he cares about is his freakin synth. The guy only has tracks that sound good because OTHER PEOPLE MAKE THEM SOUND GOOD. As for kanye, yeh his early stuff was pretty ok, i did actually like some of his stuff, and i won't knock the fact that his use of the mpc is pretty good but the guys ego is so big he walks around like a bobblhead on a chinese guys car dashboard. the taylor swift rant anyone?

as for this dirty south electropop shite well all the little gangstas can have it, every track sounds the same. total logic sample library overrun.

i don't care about the money either, if someone jumps on the final track and lets loose something like pegz` "Back Then" then maybe the coin made will pay for the clearance.

[jkhuri44]

dont have to send the tune, sorry, iw as trying to find where u wrote it...my work haze, has screwed me over, i'll utube it man.

probably not a good idea posting an original tune online ;-)

as far as dirty south hoppers....imo, the same can be said about every funk sampling hiphop tune sounding the same...just that the people that make it think its more soulful, coz it samples "good" music. I've heard good and bad examples of both.

[heathen]

I just try not to bag anyone or anything out on the net anymore, I learnt that the hard way on slutz, though you don't have to say much there to upset everyone. Just tell them their fav pre sounds like cardboard and look the hell out.

[DwaneHollands]

Yo Jamil!

Had a listen to your tracks bloke! Man that was......insane!

Mind bending stuff mate! I understand why Chris used a cocktail analogy to 'attempt' to explain it.

Those toms in Lacerta at the beginning were awesome! I'm a little obsessive about toms, kicks and snares. Were they an accoustic kit? (non-sample based). How did you process them?

Progressive like a trip down to the wizard of Oz! Totally love the 'World' percussion. Just adds a beautifully organic flavour to the tracks. Love how they cut through with the Metal Guitars. Love the ambience in the tracks! Man there is sooo much going on there! Layers and layers! Crazy deep sound stage going on there too!

Totally love the bottom end in Lacerta. There's so much energy down there. No doubt artfully mastered by Rick to make that work!

wow dude!

[jkhuri44]

the drums were a 10,000 dollar Pearl reference kit recorded at Electric Avenue...by a real drummer...

individually eq'd and compd with Waves REQ, and McDSP plugins in the box, and eqd and comped with analog gear at heathen's studio.

thanks for the compliments! I'm sure you'd enjoy the album, PM me if you're interested ;-)

myspace sounds like balls.

[DwaneHollands]

Jamil,

PM'd ya!

[heathen]

Yeah doing the drums as stems really got me thinking about mixing drums, I was always the type to compress kicks and snares individually, from now on though if I do any more mixing I'll be mixing the drums without much individual comp at all except maybe a plugin or 2. Most of the balls in the drums on Jamils record we got with parallel comp and eq.

Setup was I think API comp into Avalon eq on 1st drum group, then ANT eq into Smart C2 comp with a 3db boost at 40hz to get the kick thumping, then I think SSL channel plugin into my Pendulum limiter which help bring out a bit of the chunkiness.

Was not quite feeling the drums with just 2 parallel groups, once the 3rd was added we were cooking.

Was a very fun album as in it just could'nt get boring, was so much to listen too. Was able to really go to town with delays and reverbs too, yay.

Another reason it sounded great was because Jamil decided that the record should not be made too loud, we kept conservative levels and opted for the cleanest sound possible on my gear. The actual CD sounds great when you turn it up on the stereo.

The tracking was excellent and that made mixing everything alot easier.

Rick's mastering on it was superb, really brought out the very best, the depth and clarity are amazing. Wish he had the Maya when it was done.

[musikwerks]

I just mastered an album with Rick through the Weiss/Maya stuff. Seriously, it has something about it. Can't explain it but I liked it. Jamil, your songs are killer. I reckon it sits up there with Dredg and Porcupine Tree (for me anyway). Well done.

[jkhuri44]

Rick's mastering on it was superb, really brought out the very best, the depth and clarity are amazing. Wish he had the Maya when it was done.

the Maya would have made the least difference, if i could rewind time...i'd change vocal mic choice, and re record bass and guitars...

if i could do THAT, then maybe the Maya would actually be worth thinking about , before that though, it would be the least important thing i'd want :P

[jkhuri44]

thanks kris, really appreciated :-)