Time for a new soundcard... suggestions?

[harry]

Hi everybody,

just wondering what your opinions are, im after a new multichannel soundcard.

I need a minimum of 8 analogue ins and outs, firewire would be a bonus... (for the occasional mobile laptop recording..... but not essential)

im currently updating from my obosolete logic 5.5 on pc.... i ve been looking at sx3 and sonar - i dont want to use protools.

im currently using the creamware luna 2/2 soundcard - does anybody have any experience with their a16 ultra (16 in and out) 16 in would be great when doing a live mix outside the pc.

others ive been looking at are the motu traveller and rme fireface 800.

i will be using it mainly to transfer live mixes and sequenced mixes to computer - from 8 bus and heaps of outboard and hardware samplers synths.

above all, i need the system to be rock solid (dont you love it when things just 'work')

thanks all

[Virtual Aaron]

My RME fireface is rock solid, has 10 analog ins (two of them are mic only though) and also has two sets of adat in so you could expand it easily enough to 26 ins.
The drivers are great and you can even 'varispeed' record with it as it has an incremental sampling rate option via a slider, which even works in realtime!
Having said that, I haven't had much experience with the competition (except a 002, which is a trip to hell)

[Chinagraf]

I'll put in another vote for the RME 800 - best thing I've heard under 5 grand. Actually, there is a distributor in Melbourne that can do them at a pretty nice price. If you go that way pm me and I'll give you his details.

[chris p]

Yo Harry

An external box linked in via firewire should give a noticeable improvement over your existing soundcard. The RME unit above is indeed an excellent beast, and there is a new Focusrite Saffire box that does pretty much the same.

Down from there a step in price (whether its also a step down in audio quality depends a lot on the room, your monitors and the ear to hear it) is the MOTU range - the traveller or 828II are fine machines, and the Presonus FireStation probably fits in here as well. Down another step in price (quality?) is the M-Audio range, but these typically these have less connectivity.

All these have analogs as well as some digital patching options - if you don't have any other converters and are looking for straight analog AD, you might check out Hercules 16/12 or the Echo Audiofire 12 units.

Going the other way, the Apogee range has boast factor but comes at a price - similarly for Lynx, Benchmark,

To be honest, if your starting point is a PC soundcard and Logic 5.5, I wouldn't sweat this particular choice - work out what you can spend on it, and talk to your fav audio shop about what they can do for the price. The point being that you'll likely be transferring your audio to the computer at 24 / 44.1kHz, and pretty much all the current models can do that for 8 channels standing on their head. Don't get caught in the specs battle - sure it might handle 196kHz, but who needs to chew up that much disk space when its destiny is a CD?

By the time you're ready to move on, the whole game will have changed with new and better units (the current trend is to shove audio down cat 5 computer cables) and you'll be glad you didn't break the bank by buying the latest and greatest Apogee or whatever. All AD converters are destined to be obsolete the day after you buy them anyway. I still use an old MotU 828 (mk I), which is creaking in terms of converter and audio quality compared to what's on offer today, but as I typically record in places other than a studio (halls, garages, living rooms), its not so bad.

Don't get me wrong - I'm not saying get the cheapest you can. I'm saying get the best you can actually afford without going past that point.

Good luck - let us all know how you go

[harry]

hi everyone,

thanks for your ideas,

i looked at the rme fireface and figured that its a fantastic box but 2 of them would bring me to $5k (16 channels).

it occured to me that i am 3-6 months away from even using the stuff (home renovations) and that i could either buy em and watch em become obsolete in a year or build a few neve jlm 1290's and homebrew 1176's, ssl comps, a pultec and maybe a la2a and use em for the next 20 years.

i ended up going for a s/h creamware a16 ultra and scope card off evilbay for $800, i know they aint the best or worse but i know 2 people that have them running without glitches they sound alright - at least through my tannoy golds, and they can handle 16 ins + outs 96k at once (bet my p4 cant though) which helps when doin a dump of a live mix - i record mainly sampled and a little live stuff at home, my hardware samplers have a total of 16 outs so i am able to run individual sounds through my growing collection of outboard and then bring them back into the pc as audio for mixing.

thanks for your advice guys, hopefully by the time the a16 is truly old and crap i'll have worked my way into purchasing the latest super dooper apogee converters.

[chris p]

The A16 and ADAT card will do just fine for you, I'm sure. The key thing is to get the A/D conversion done outside the computer, and you have achieved that.

You also have an ambitious DIY program there. Good luck with it. Many on this forum have done those projects, so if you get really stuck ...

[harry]

hey chris,

as for the diy, ive done the 1176's already and will eventually do some ssl's then onto the some valve gear like the G9 and the more complicated api 312 type stuff.

by the way have you seen the thread on groupdiy about the ssl summing mixer. a member of the original analogue design team frequents the site and members have been talking about putting together a summing mixer using diy line amp stages based on the ssl g / 9k desks. Talk about crazy.

would sure be nice to sum all my analogue and digital (16 now) analogue outs this way. Although i suspect it might be more satisfying to make one using a whole lot of neve ba283? cards and so on..

either way it makes for some interesting reading - check out the thread on groupdiy:

http://www.prodigy-pro.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=7725

apart from that amongst others on this site chris (mfdu) is doing lots of diy, and chris (linear) has done some full on diy (like complete 1073's)
so there seems to be a lot of knowledge here.

if anything reading about how this stuff is made makes you understand what a bargain $5 gorillas is for a true neve reissue 1073 and which manufacturers (chandler? perhaps) cut corners on build quality and charge top dollar for it.

i have been researching where the best places are to get good quality rack cases and, hole punching, screen printing etc, as well as where to buy components (like dirt cheap oep's) so i will post a list as soon as diy resumes (after home renovation is finished)

cheers guys.

[harry]

hey chris,

as for the diy, ive done the 1176's already and will eventually do some ssl's then onto the some valve gear like the G9 and the more complicated api 312 type stuff.

by the way have you seen the thread on groupdiy about the ssl summing mixer. a member of the original analogue design team frequents the site and members have been talking about putting together a summing mixer using diy line amp stages based on the ssl g / 9k desks. Talk about crazy.

would sure be nice to sum all my analogue and digital (16 now) analogue outs this way. Although i suspect it might be more satisfying to make one using a whole lot of neve ba283? cards and so on..

either way it makes for some interesting reading - check out the thread on groupdiy:

http://www.prodigy-pro.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=7725

apart from that amongst others on this site chris (mfdu) is doing lots of diy, and chris (linear) has done some full on diy (like complete 1073's)
so there seems to be a lot of knowledge here.

if anything reading about how this stuff is made makes you understand what a bargain $5 gorillas is for a true neve reissue 1073 and which manufacturers (chandler? perhaps) cut corners on build quality and charge top dollar for it.

i have been researching where the best places are to get good quality rack cases and, hole punching, screen printing etc, as well as where to buy components (like dirt cheap oep's) so i will post a list as soon as diy resumes (after home renovation is finished)

cheers guys.

[mfdu]

hi harry

yeah, that summing box has been a real hot topic and there's been a few different types proposed.

hope the new i/o rig is doing what you want!

cop ya later.

chris.