advice on converters

[mylesgm]

So I'm in the market for an 8 channel ad/da but I have a problem. I do both location and studio work and my rigs are different. i have a fireface 800 with adat i/o so want something that has adat i/o. in the studio I have an aurora lynx into 'tools. this has an additional 8 channels of aes that i'm not using. so i need a converter that outputs both adat and aes, goes up to 96k and is good quality. i was going to get the lucid 8824 but it only does 48k, then an older ad8000 with suitable cards but they only do 48k and the dynamic range is less...

Thoughts on whats out there? I don't want to buy two (single ad and single da) and I'm not rolling in cash so prism/ apogee ad16x etc off limits.

any info greatly appreciated...

M

[Kurt]

swearword ada8000

Edit: Oops, doesn't do aes.

[mylesgm]

had one of those ada8000 but I don't need mic amps as I have a pile of lovely valve. neve, auditronics, altec ones... I couldn't plug those into a be!@#$%^& ada8000!

[Barney Loveland]

Wez is selling a mytek 8 channel in the for sale section.

[mylesgm]

I thought about the mytek but it is only d/a not a/d

[Linear]

A Rosetta 800 has 8 channels of ADAT I/O as well as AES I/O. It can act as a digital router, and you can add an option firewire card to give you coreaudio IO connectivity.

Cheaper than an AD/DA 16X too.

Chris

[mylesgm]

does the rosetta do 96k? thought it only went up to 48... if so thats a good option.

[Linear]

my rosetta goes up to 192. not sure about firewire mode though, I think it does.

Chris

[mylesgm]

and why are converters so expensive?! my rme fireface 800 sounds great and not only has 10 ad/da up to 192, but also onboard dsp, 16 channels of adat i/o, AES, 4 mic amps, DI, headphone amp, firewire hub, midi etc etc and is 2200. why is an 8 channel line level converter more than that? I mean understand there being hi-end expense but ALL the 8 channel ad/da are more expensive.

I just dont get it.

and linear, you are correct I was thinking of the ad8000 apogee not the rosetta.

M

[Linear]

why is it expensive?

well, why is a porsche 911 expensive? same rules apply;

a) because alot of R&D engineering goes into the design and construction (ie they actually develop new technology, not just 'borrow' others)
b) because it doesn't sell in high volumes
c) because it's not made using developing countries low wages and/or slave labour

Apogee is in the US. They employ US workers, pay them fair and reasonable wages/sick leave/entitlements, have an environmental policy (which includes solar panels on their factory) and probably spend more money on things that chinese manufacturers wouldn't dream of (such as responsible waste management etc).

Given this, I reckon it's cheap. Sure an ADA8000 is cheaper, but let's face it, it's crap. Life's too short to bother with crap IMHO.

Chris

[mylesgm]

Ah, see I agree with everything you just said Linear but my point was that there are no inbetween products. My RME has lots of RnD, is designed built in germany and sounds good. are there better? of course and there are cheaper too but it s made to a price/quality point and I have made many good albums with it. Why aren't there are similar standard converters at a similar value price? Basically I want only a portion of a Fireface in a standalone box and yet even the RME converters are about the same price or more expensive than a Fireface. Thats what I don't understand.

And there are two product numbers that are confusing here. ADA8000 made by be!@#$%^& and ad8000 an older design made by apogee. The ada8000 is poor on many levels and I was not saying why isn't the apogee the same price as the be!@#$%^&...

m

[Linear]

I've done the pepsi challenge with RME converters. They aren't bad, but there's a reason they're cheaper - they don't sound as good... call me a snob.

I knew you were talking about the AD8000, but someone else mentioned the ADA8000.

I think rosettas are quite affordable for what they are.

Chris

[mylesgm]

Well I'm sure you're right that the apogees sound better but I think there are more important parts of the chain and thats where I want to spend my money, mics, pres etc. I want good quality converters but cant afford the best and RME is good enough for now especially for something that loses its value so quickly. anyway there just dont seem to be many options that seem to fit my budget...

any other ideas?

M

[TimS]

Myles,
Heath (heathen) has a Apogee Rosetta for sale I think still..
Check the FS area..

[heathen]

Yeah my Rosetta is still for sale, feelin weird selling my gear but $3000 and it's yours. Comes with 2 trs snakes to connect it to a patchbay. It's a 192k version.

I'll even throw in 2 lightpipes and a cable for wordclock.

The reason the rme stuff is cheaper is because they are a swiss army knife type unit, heaps of usefull options and sound ok but not spectacular at anything. The apogees though do sound alot better and are a dedicated converter, they don't do much else.

Apogee 16x sound a lot better again than rosettas, but rosettas do cut it. Not the best but good enough.

[Linear]

I know it's bad forum karma to comment on asking prices, but I could get a Rosetta 800 192 (new, with 12 month warranty) for $3080 ex GST. And that's buying from a retailer here in Sydney.

Chris

[heathen]

Errrr Chris that's why in my ad I said any reasonable offers accepted, but I'm not giving it away. Also $400 bucks worth of cables too or don't they count?

I'm always happy to make a deal.

If that was INCL gst I would say super bargain, I paid $3700 for mine about 2 years back. So yeah I reckon waving $3000 cash under mister salesman's nose may get you out the door with one but I would'nt bet on it.

[jkhuri44]

i think JCF audio do a convertor which has an Ampex 440 block as the front end.

sounds like a killer idea...

never heard one though.

[HA_DA_JA]

yeah but at US $6K?

[mylesgm]

and how much does that thing weigh? I mean I like the idea but...

[jkhuri44]

yeah but at US $6K?

yeah, expensive, ouch. :P

[DaleRoyce]

I have no idear if they have what you need config wise, but i did a lot of A/Bing and to my ears the MYTEK 192 ADC that i use,
sounds stella..
Yes that's right, The unit has a sound. All because of its well designed/built audio input components/section.
And no.. i didn't A/B it against the Apogees, but mastering is my trick an pony, so higher end 2 channel i/o was my only aim.

To be honest.. I really just want another vac-tube rating tube under my name, thus the post ;-)

[DaleRoyce]

Oh yer.. That was just my 2cents..
;-) ;-)

[Chris H]

How about the Apogee Ensemble as an option.

[Milo]

Currently there's a long debate on gearslutz / so much gear.... based on RME converters. It has devolved into a slanging match, but its interesting that one of the main posters, who works at wafer level in the manufacture of the chips involved, is being largely lambasted for his view that even all chips of the same model are not equal, and his (obvious) stressing of the importance of the design and component choices in the analogue sections.
Interesting point made (again) about the difference in converters being more obvious when you start layering a lot of tracks: that's where the better converters stay clean, and the not-so-good start to muddy things up. Makes sense, because at thiat stage the circuit design is being pushed to its limits.
I use a FF400, and for the classical/acoustic stuff I record (not many tracks), its the ticket (though I only use its DA and not its AD- use a Grace front end). Its mic pres are also well up to standard for this type of work.
I agree: not the ultimate converter, but it at least stands up to its $2,000RRP price category.

[Dallas]

Currently there's a long debate on gearslutz / so much gear.... based on RME converters. It has devolved into a slanging match, but its interesting that one of the main posters, who works at wafer level in the manufacture of the chips involved, is being largely lambasted for his view that even all chips of the same model are not equal, and his (obvious) stressing of the importance of the design and component choices in the analogue sections..

Yeah, what the ?? would someone who actually builds them know??? :wink:

[heathen]

The analog components in the front end and outputs of converters make a big difference to how they are going to sound, like Rick's Maya converters I think have a custom tube designed input stage, which probably cost more than most of us would make in 2 years.

Dunno about chip sets being slightly different if theyre the same model but it does make sense.

[mylesgm]

back to available converters... anybody have an 8824 lucid or an ad16 (not x series) or a mytek 8x96ad or etc... sitting about needing to be used?

M

[Gian]

Hi Myles

Echo products are not very much talked about, but have you looked into them. I recently had a look at them and there is a product that just has 8 ins (without pres I think)

http://www.echoaudio.com/

the audiofire pre 8 has 8 mic pres
http://www.echoaudio.com/Products/FireW ... /index.php

the audiofire 8 just has 8 ins
http://www.echoaudio.com/Products/FireW ... /index.php

Or what about MetricHalo 2882, but it would double up on your fireface 800 features and is between 2k and 3k

[mylesgm]

Thanks Gian,

What I'm really after is something that will do aes (to interface with my aurora) and something that does Adat (to interface with the fireface). I just don't see why there are so many converters that have heaps of options like the metric halo at 2-3k and then an 8 channel ad/da is also 2-3k. Same case, less features, same price. Seems to make no sense...