Lenehan Loudspeakers & Cryo'ed CD's

[Ausrock]

Glass is probably better regarded as a super-cooled liquid. The reason for distortion in older glass is mainly due to the manufacturing preocesses as "float glass" was not introduced until the 1950's, prior to then glass manufacture was an imperfect process.

[Linear]

Glass is probably better regarded as a super-cooled liquid. The reason for distortion in older glass is mainly due to the manufacturing preocesses as "float glass" was not introduced until the 1950's, prior to then glass manufacture was an imperfect process.

i wouldn't exactly call glass a super cooled liquid, although i guess it kinda makes sense. glass is amorphous, non-crystalline and solid-at-room-temperature. it's like taking a liquid and cooling it really quickly, to the point where it doesn't have time to crystallise (a little like quenching metal to make it harder, freezing the structure before they have time to organise themselves).

i might have to pull out my 'mechanics of materials' textbook. god it's almost 20 years since I studied materials!! is there a 'science' to supercooling cables? i seriously doubt it. i'm going to look more into it, but metals that are solid at room temperature wouldn't change their conductive properties simply by cooling. annealing works but only because it's playing around with the structure of the metals at higher temperatures, once a metal is a solid, i don't think cooling makes an ounce of difference.

Chris

[rick]

[ once a metal is a solid, i don't think cooling makes an ounce of difference.

Chris

you better read up a bit chris your wrong here :)

there is a whole industry that cyro treats metal to make it harder for industrial tooling , engine parts etc
its a known hardening process that affects the metals at a crystaline level after they are formed , like the heat hardening you spoke of but without the distortion factor - it is very controllable and very measurable

it makes things like router bits super hard and super tough , tough being not brittle, engine parts, gears , knife blades once made and shaped are work hardened by cryo treatment .
you can easily bump up a few hardness points by this process , but it is the "toughness" it brings that makes it an industry treatment

the only reason i could even contemplate freezing all my cables is there is a bunch of tooling factories down the road that do it every day, its only $75 per kilo so i thought hell why not ?
the mumbo is that extruding a copper cable causes minscule cracks in the copper crystals, cryotreating changes those crystals and realigns them to a degree that can be photographed .
but does that make it a better conducter..?
does it sound better ..?
any it was too cheap and easy to do for me not to try :)

now why you would pay $75 for just one cryo cd i am not sure... maybe its magic thing ?

but the japanese crystal polycarbonate cd runs are cryod in bulk and the masters are all made from verified data file sets , not from pmcd as well , as well as certified flatness and thickness of the media !
so this is probably as good as a cd can get
some people want things as good as it can be
i am into that part of the idea

[Linear]

looks like i've got some reading ahead of me...

[Ausrock]

[i wouldn't exactly call glass a super cooled liquid, although i guess it kinda makes sense. glass is amorphous, non-crystalline and solid-at-room-temperature. it's like taking a liquid and cooling it really quickly, to the point where it doesn't have time to crystallise (a little like quenching metal to make it harder, freezing the structure before they have time to organise themselves).


Chris

Chris,

To all intents and purposes, glass is solid at room temp and I'm sure you'll get differing "arguments" if you dig around enough BUT please don't try taking molten glass and cooling it really quickly, you're asking for trouble :-) ........... take it from someone who has worked with glass in a kiln, poked and prodded it in it's molten state, annealed it to avoid stress fracturing (not always successfully), etc., etc.............nothing quite like standing at an open kiln with a temp over 800deg ;-)

[Linear]

btw i don't doubt that cryo freezing affects physical properties such as hardness, brittleness and ductility - but conductive properties? that's kinda what i meant.

but yes, i'll check it out.

Chris

[no-fi]

Solids are weird even though they are solid to feel and touch they can still behave similar to liquids over a long period of time. That's why really old glass panes in really old buildings look a little warped when you look carefully, the glass is still behaving as a liquid and slowly being dragged toward the ground by gravity.

this was a pop science idea a few years ago, using the idea of glass being thicker at the bottom of older window panes as its main argument. it became very widespread because it's such a cool story, but unfortunately untrue.

problem is, that this argument doesn't take into account old glassmaking technology vs new technology. the old glass panes were never uniform thickness. Most were put in with their thick end down for stability and water runoff reasons, but people built them into windows, so this wasn't done the right way all the time.... there are also some windows in some very old buildings where the tops of the glass panes are thicker than the bottom.

bottom line - glass has never been proven to flow. even the oldest examples of glass in the world fail to show this effect.

(I'll actually say light "IS" a particle :))

that's a very big call.

photons can be seen to have some particle properties, yes...... but they also don't seem to have any mass (which a particle should have, yeah?) and also they show some very major wave properties. (how about diffraction gratings?) and when you look at the way photons are produced, it's an energy loss in the producing material, not a mass loss.

and while we're at it, even radio frequency EM waves can be shown to bounce off things, and they are most definitely not particles.

[rick]

arhh the saturday meeting of the "little scientist within club !"
i am going to just duck out on work on my futura for a while so i feel a bit more like a hoon then a dweeb
dont go freezing anything you shouldnt while i am gone guys :)

[Thirteen]

So, then the way to do it is to read your CD off into your computer hard drive as a data transfer, to take advantage of the computers perfect transfer capacity, and then play back off the HD, which we also know does not have transfer errors as applications from hard drives do not crash. Once again, cheaper than a cryo CD.

[DaleRoyce]

It fills my heart with joy to have started a thread that has two pages..

Now... Anyone heard those speakers ;-)

[Roy]

This glass conversation might be a bit off topic... but if it makes me qualified to comment... I've worked in a glass factory for 15 years. After it is formed it goes through a lehr (a massive oven that cools it very slowly- about 500 degrees C over 45 minutes). Once cooled, forget it it's not changing it's shape. Maybe it was different years ago but at room temperature it will stay a solid longer than anyone on this forum.

[rick]

then play back off the HD, which we also know does not have transfer errors as applications from hard drives do not crash..

err steve ..... yes they do ... and yes they do !

but i think your getting the idea :) - solid stateplay back of pcm audio data + exceptional converter circuit quality is where the is all going
actually its gone.... but if dale has just got the horn for cyro cds AND those speakers ( i havent heard them ) , and we made his first two page thread out of it
i guess we can all hang around in the past for another decade or so , nobody seems to notice what year it is around here anyway

[DaleRoyce]

The funniest thing.
This morning whilst sitting on my contemplation thrown, i reached over to the pile of zen-like meditation publications,
and what do i find.. in the AT issue 67 for April 2009..
A review of the said Lenehan ML1's (as vague as it was) followed closely by Master O'Neil's own Cryo cable madness story as in "the last word".
How tight is that. :-P

[rick]

nearly as freaky as my 1176 post :)

[rob]

whilst musing about error free storage of audio data, keep in mind that hard drives, just like CDs are not error free. Just like audio CDs, a hard drive uses error detection and correction techniques to deal with the not insignificant data corruption that occurs on the storage medium. This error correction is very successful, if it wasn't none of your applications would work reliably ( i know, i know...your applications don't work reliably, but that is an entirely different discusion ... ).
So if this error correction works well enough to ensure that not one bit of data is incorrect as is required by an application, then is it too much to suggest that this accuracy applies to audio data?
CDs are more prone to data error than hard drives, however a well manufacured CD in a good CD player will produce an error rate that falls within the range of the error correction system.

From many many hours spent aligning pro CD players, DAT machines, ADAT and minidisk which in service mode give you an actual read out of error rate and if uncorrectable errors are being generated , I can say that all media produce errors, but good machines aligned correctly will fix all errors, and if they don't there is nothing subtle about the audible results..