Audient Zen

[mark rachelle]

http://www.audient.com/audient/product/ ... s-tabset-3

Hey all

Am thinking about having this as my hub
basically mixing in the box these days, but summing is needed for work that requires the analog love, it also has a wet/dry ssl clone in it (or so I am told)

has anyone heard one?
are the pres good enough

is audient good enough?

monitor section seems nice and noise floor is impressive on paper

thoughts?

[rick]

i know a american guy that has huge credits that has used the other audient desk for an album here in australia that had previous local "rave reviews"

and he told me "nah dont believe it ... its a trumped up soundcraft - not scaled down ssl"

that slur on their good name thrown and without actually trying the new one myself ....
it looks good and usefull doesnt it !

i am a basic believer pro audio companies dont change their basic qualities for the better very often ..

but they continue to get better on paper ..

maybe this is the exception , i dunno .

it looks like a little DDA i used to own once - great desk

[mylesgm]

what the price and how many channels do you need? there are a lot of good used options out there depending on your budget...

[Chinagraf]

I had a look at that and saw all the 'DAW' in a lot of lines and assumed it had multi layer daw control as well. Now that would be cool. As just a mixer, of sorts, (no eq, limited sends etc)
I reckon you could put something together that would be better for the money. The moving fader version, which is what you would want is close to 15K retail.
Do you have pres of your own? I guess that's where it would be handy. I've heard some mixes done on the bigger Audient and they sounded fine. Didn't sound like the desk brought anything to the party, but
they were certainly listenable.
I'm in a similar boat at the moment, but I've got a bit of outboard to incorporate. I wish they had put daw control in the SSL X-desk. Thinking about a couple of those linked together for 32 ins and fx returns, monitoring, talkback etc..
Cheers

[mark rachelle]

i want it for the pres, compressor, clarity and monitor section which seems to be the best of the summing moving faders are cool, but not essential, looks cool too which helps.

as well as a mixer for some basic mastering

and to be portable as i am moving in 6 months and this doesnt need commissioning

not sure if this will hold its value tho

[Chinagraf]

Yeah, as an all in one package it looks pretty cool. The non automated one is cheaper. I've seen some good reviews but none have commented on the pres. Awave handle them. I wonder if Vinny's got one on the floor to listen to?

[rick]

I wish they had put daw control in the SSL X-desk. Thinking about a couple of those linked together for 32 ins and fx returns, monitoring, talkback etc..
Cheers

i bought one of those little ssl desks for christmas , i really like it .... it is like somebody said ,
"what is rick looking for for his new recording room - he already has all the mic pres eq and outboard a man could need
but he wants a little desk to track and monitor with .. and he is not understanding the new world where you dont need a desk to track "

great i thought .. problem solved and it is .

but as it goes i stumbled into a small frame 40 chn analog euphonix cs3000 full automation , dynamics and recall machine control etc
at the right price so i have nabbed that instead actually i think as well :)

so thats what i am going to use for the recording room in the new place .
great i thought .. i hope it is :)

i might sell a new mint x desk in due course or maybe i will put it in the mastering room , and sell the pultec summing mixer
which is more likely.. anyway i digress..
the x desk is fantastic it doesnt look like its anything out of the ordinary but it really is
cannot recommend it for tracking enough ( well for the right kind of engineer that either doesnt understand protools.. ermm or totally understands ! )

[Ben M]

Hey Mark

I'm guessing you would ultimately like a AWS900+ because of your previous console . They're probably close to the ultimate modern day console - with analog path and DAW control (+++++), 2 people can lift easily etc, etc.....a cross between portability and built-in is definately an attractive option these days. Dual control is a good way to go forward.

The Audient 8024, that this console is strangely based on, is built more for broadcast mostly. I see Stephen Street uses one in his basement studio.
I'm not sure about the pre's on these. Nice to have a built-in wet/dry buss compressor. You would need to hear before you buy. Rick may be right about the soundcraft comparison. Audient came about from DDA. I have a DDA and would like automating on something other than protools and a mouse. Doing the combo is cool for now.
Flying faders would be....sigh...... good. Oh well, maybe something soon.

:)

[Damien]

i installed an ssl matrix a few months ago (not in our studio...) and it confused me quite a lot at first.

this was using external pres/comps etc, logic (which im not really good at) and a whole bunch of other stuff.

when the penny dropped i really loved the "matrix" part of the console. patch anything anywhere, all recall with software... now thats great.
i then wanted a "matrix" patch bay.... now they make them.. pity there not 32 channels instead of 16....

[musikwerks]

Mark, have you thought about an SSL X-Rack summing solution?

If so, and you want to get an X-Rack (empty) I have one for sale. I had purchased some pre's but the guy has flaked on me so I'm going to stick to the 500 series. $1k plus postage if you're interested.

[NYMo]

hi there,

Rick...I had my eye on that euphonix for a few months..def the best condition
one in OZ (I looked at most of them !)

And to think they had it advertised at Mixies for over $60k..and you paid less than 11K for it ?

It was too small for me ! I've read the manual...looks like fun !
Cheers
N
Y
M
O

[rick]

hi nymo - your sums are out but you have the right idea about the console
anything that was $280,000 less then ten years ago is a one owner not even driven to church on a sunday show pony ,is all analog and still works perfectly has to be worth a look in right ..?

we will just have to see what gives with this euphonic , it might be great thing for me or it could end up being a boat anchor
i dunno - there is a reason they are going pretty cheap ( relative to what i think they are actually worth ).
and it has nothing to do with quality or sound , its the maintainance fear factor that has killed their resale value
same as ssl - actually i think its worst then ssl but in theory the euphonix more usuable "modern board".
appernetly nothing wrong at all with this board but its wrapped in bubble wrap now (thanks nick) untill i install it later in the year


neves were really cheap for a while too , and for the same reasons .

lets check in later in the year and see if i love it or we have a trm 5 minute euphonix auction :)
i might extended the "brain" to 96 chn and keep the footprint a 40 chn frame if itall works out would that be big enough for you..?

[NYMo]

Hi there,

Rick..you may be mis reading me !

I love everything about the Euphonix...just that
I get turned on more by the 80 ch or the 108 ch one..they look fantastic in a room !
The other ones I looked at all had some problems...and I don't need that !

Your one was said to be the very best in Australia (by the guys from Tag)

I'm sure you will enjoy it once you get your head around channel selection and
automation assignment. Everything runs thru its patchbay.

All they really need is stable power...and I'm sure you've got heaps of that !

Cheers
N
Y
M
O

[mark rachelle]

with a Euphonix now Rick does that now you will be going after the boy band market ;o)

[rick]

going after ...?
i thought i had bypass that point in my career
damn !

highest selling australian male artist album ..?
jason donavan 11 million copies ... mastered by .. well you know

highest hyped boy band band of the same era ....? well there is no justice in this world huh mark :)

nah really i just want a great recording studio to muck around in again - i have the space in the new place so i am doing it
electric ave are doing there own thing so i wont be able to play in that sandpit

a man needs to be able to make noise !
i dunno really why else i am building it .. just cause i want to
i have used a euphonix a fair bit so i am aware of what i am doing
but so we are clear - it makes no sense :)

[Ben M]

Rick is there any chance of a pictorial update of your new facility? It could be good to show the progress and I'm sure a few people would be interested.

I'm not sure about your choice of console though. Just playing devils advocate :) what if in the future you want to hire it on a day to day basis to other producer/engineers for tracking or mixing. Just say.
The Euphonix are a bit of a steep learning curve to just jump on and start running. I've been on the one at Alberts and I know Neil Finn's roundhead studio has one in their B room and there are probably a stack around. Milkbar had one, etc....It just seems like a strange choice.
I would have thought the Neve 8078 in your shed would have been more your style. Just kidding. :)

[musikwerks]

Will it be available for hire Rick? Any chance you could put a Neve in instead? I'm sure you've got one under the house that would do the job.

[Ben M]

What are you thinking Kris?
BCM-10 sidecar or full tilt?


:)

[Chinagraf]

[quote="musikwerks"]Will it be available for hire Rick? [/quote]

Yes, and tie lines to the mastering room so you can master straight off the music desk?
Sexy..

[musikwerks]

What are you thinking Kris?
BCM-10 sidecar or full tilt?

Not sure... I just don't associate "Euponix" with "Rock and Roll"... but I could be wrong.

[jkhuri44]

Will it be available for hire Rick?

Yes, and tie lines to the mastering room so you can master straight off the music desk?
Sexy..

just get rick to change ur mix in the mixing room....mastering at the next level :P

[mark rachelle]

Rick if building the facility of your dreams does it for you then thats reason enough.
Someone has to hold up the flame of excellence and i hope you are the last one standing and keeping the art form alive and flourishing.

Im not sure where everyone journey with this forum is taking them but i want to share something with people

Something changed in me when i got the ssl, coz realised that i still had a wanting for more gear! bigger, better , more!
why would i still have gear lust still now that i had trevor horns ssl!

I realised that i had no freedom in making music! my own insecurities and ego forced me to compete, try to be the best, have the best, tell people i'm the best, ect ect, true or not true i was a slave to my own shit!

and sadly i realised how much i now (at the time) came to dislike listening to music and how much people came to dislike me.

Anyway i had one of those life changing realisations (over 2 years) is that by bringing it all back to nothing.
And that means being complete within yourself without having any gear or having the "association" of "being" or trying to "be" someone a new freedom started to open up.
And believe it or not that also meant a new financial freedom as well as freedom from yourself and that constant mind noise!

Anyway the best part is that I have fallen back in love with music.

Its an amazing form of communication and enjoyment, and far more pure in communication than speaking, and we are all blessed that we get to share it with the world.

Well thats enough of my significance for today. ;0)

[rick]

the euphonix is just the headphone mixer ! :)
i dont care about outside engineers thats not the deal at turtlerock
- and who said my new place wasnt havent a neve as well ..?
well a rack of them anyway , and a rack of quadeights and a rack of telefunkens , wezes old all tube 10 chn console
all the neumanns a man needs , guitars and amps , live room with a really really high roof and i am trying pretty hard to get elton johns c9 grand piano - but if not then another grand piano , i am thinking of doing a lot of things i always wanted to do
but found excuses not to , i think too many people i know died last year for my liking

but its not going to be a for hire studio - well the mastering side is as per usuall
but the production side is for me and my friends to make records in .

there are too many studios making too little money with too much of the same kind of gear

i just want to have a studio done my way - to make music in :)

[heathen]

I get what both of you are saying, playing music was why I started in audio too, loved it and got real good at playing guitar and synths, had brain surgery lost the use of my right hand and can't play guitar anymore. Anyway putting down the occasional bass line on a keyboard for mates or a simple keyboard part is all I can really do now. Still love mixing though and dabbling in pretending to master stuff.

To be honest though I hate tracking and dealing with bands, mixing is fine cause everyone sits around going ohh that sounds good and this sounds good, I just hate doing take after take and each getting worse than the last (some days).

I was going sell my gear but I don't have too, still might though, would'nt mind a nice car. I thought the same thing, can always do it again later. But that gear lust is a killer, always wanting more, it's worse than a coke adiction and probably even more expensive.

I dunno I guess Rick's had this plan all along, at least we know all that gear he's hoarded for years will be used. Now if you ever need anyone to come over and play triangle in that killer studio I'm there!!!

[musikwerks]

Heath, that's hard core man. I didn't know about your surgery.

I can't play properly at the moment as one of my drugs causes the skin on my fingers and feet to blister and peel and feel like they're burning all the time. I'm temporarily on a drug called Xeloda and I have to travel (if I travel) with a letter from my doc because my finger prints are fading and customs officials get super suspicious when someone rocks up without fingerprints. It's almost impossible for me to open a bottle or can or exert any real pressure on anything without considerable discomfort and some days I shuffle like an old man because my feet hurt so much. I really want to play but I can't because I can't grip the pick properly and, well, it just hurts a lot. My ailment is only temporary, as long as I'm on the meds, so I will be able to play again. But I feel for you man. I know how frustrating it is, especially when you love it.

But... you're alive. That's worth a lot.

kris.

[mark rachelle]

Good on you Heath!
and Kris

I guess a bit of honest sharing about life is the best.

You know we never discuss gear lust and how to manage it / our minds, we worship it here and thats ok

The other thing i want to say is sometimes we need help dealing with ourselves, especially related to music, challenging clients, getting the best ideas and takes from others and how do we learn to train our minds to really listen to the music rather than listening through your ego ect and make the record that you think should be made rather than what the music is calling out for it to be made.

thats where the best records happen, and yet we never discuss us, how to be happier in our work and creative processes, we always seem to put our emphasis on the gear rather than our creativity, enjoyment and love for one of the best things going. Music

[jkhuri44]

Good on you Heath!
and Kris

I guess a bit of honest sharing about life is the best.

You know we never discuss gear lust and how to manage it / our minds, we worship it here and thats ok

The other thing i want to say is sometimes we need help dealing with ourselves, especially related to music, challenging clients, getting the best ideas and takes from others and how do we learn to train our minds to really listen to the music rather than listening through your ego ect and make the record that you think should be made rather than what the music is calling out for it to be made.

thats where the best records happen, and yet we never discuss us, how to be happier in our work and creative processes, we always seem to put our emphasis on the gear rather than our creativity, enjoyment and love for one of the best things going. Music

awesome, now someone pay me for the above...thanks.

[heathen]

Yeah good ya Jamil, get your record on itunes then you might get paid, heh.

Seriously I learnt a lot about myself and others after surgery, I learnt to be a bit more patient and that life changes, sometimes in an instant, the simple things in life are the best things, easy to say but it is true. Music is/should be be one of those things.

Yeah my surgery was scheduled for Sept 11 2000, yep exactly 1 year before the whole world changed for the worse, go figure. Been nearly 10 years now. Losing the ability to play guitar really was the worst thing for me, I had a great control of the thing and was getting better at it constantly, I played for about 10 years.

kris I'm glad you'll be able to pick it up again, holding the pick properly is the hardest thing for me too, plus my right wrist is so slow I just can't play any type of rhythm, used to be able to chop like Anthrax and Slayer. But hey it does'nt bother me anymore that I can't play, I still have the knowledge to help an average guitarist play and sound like a better guitarist. I think when you can't play you get some of your best ideas too, write them down so you don't forget them.

I had an "AVM" (Arterio Venous Malformation), Neil Young has one also, though he had his embolised from the inside with glue, fine if you're old as this treatment does not last too long, but usually long enough, I needed mine removed so there was no chance of it bursting, which would have meant instant death or worse if it had. Was only 27 so embolisation would not be a good choice.

Even though you'll be able to play again Kris and I can't, I'd rather have had brain surgery than what you're going through mate. Was more like a knockout punch than something creeping up on me, so I knew where I was and what I had to deal with straight away. I know you've learnt a lot too since you've been sick, been seeing a different Kris on here, probably a more patient 1 lol. As you would know sitting around feeling sorry for yourself is only going to make things worse too, it's counter-productive and a waste of energy. Being tough enough to still smile while getting through something like this is a big achievement.

Yeah I agree Mark, ego is the worst thing for music, can totally destroy it, everyone has thier own ideas when it comes to music but the only way to tell if it works is to try it with an open mind. Most people end up ditching thier dodgy ideas once they hear them, sometimes it can be quicker to just try it than argue about it.

Another thing I've learnt is music is an amazing tool for mood altering. Most people when they are feeling down put on a sad song and make it worse, best thing to do is put on something that makes you feel good something upbeat, even if it hurts, usually halfway into the second song you're usually going to feel better, whether you really want to or not.

So yeah I can't play guit and I now throw things like a girl but hey I'm happy in life.

[musikwerks]

Yeah, everything is different now. The things that used to upset me just aren't even worth the time of day anymore. There are so many more important things. My family especially. I have a wife and two sons... one is 3 and the other is 18 months. It's all about perspective and cancer has given me gobs of it. At the end of the day, if it is indeed my time to go (which I don't believe it is), I don't want to be remembered as a cranky bastard. I want to be remembered as a good man, a good father and husband, generous, compassionate and understanding. I'm not going to breathe my last wishing I had spent more time working or telling people off and I'm not going to sit around feeling sorry for myself either as it does nothing for anyone. You all know what I believe and that I have faith in God. Because of that I have hope and that hope equals strength. I know I am not fighting alone. There are literally thousands of people around the world praying for me. Some of them are members of this forum. All I know is that those prayers are being heard and answered. I'm getting better when statistically speaking I really shouldn't be. Yeah, it's a bitch of a journey but I'm not giving up. Cancer picked the wrong body to come and hang out in.

Henry Rollins said "Scar tissue is stronger than regular tissue. Realize the strength, move on". I've got scar tissue up the wazoo... both physically and mentally.... but I'm better for it. I know it's a contradiction but my cancer is possibly the best thing that's ever happened to me because it's changing who I am for the better.

We all live in a very fragile skin called humanity. It could be any one of us at any time. Like Rick said, too many people died last year too close to home.

As they say, get busy living or get busy dying. I know which one I choose.

[heathen]

Yeah gotta agree there. It does help when you know others care too, I'm never one to knock what people believe, I love to stir but that's just me. Before I went to hospital some Koori's who are customers at my parents shop said they would do a "healing ceremony" for me, I guess it worked. :) :) :)

Yep plenty to live for, no checkin out yet!!