Shelving Top End or Bottom End and Phase Issues...

[DwaneHollands]

Hi Guys,

I read a snippet somewhere recently about phase issues when shelving with an EQ. I thought doing extreme shelving with EQ at either the top end or bottom end was an equal playing field. Meaning, it didn't matter what EQ you used, a 'shelf is a shelf is a shelf'.

For example. Shelving with an ITB EQ plugin at 4000hz at -12db with the same Q as an OTB EQ with the same settings. Are they going to give me the same results?

Or is it going to be sonically superior with an OTB EQ? Even though I'm only shelving frequencies.

[jkhuri44]

listening to the 2 would tell you which one would be better wouldnt it?

[Chris H]

Wouldn't worry about it if it sounds ok when listened to in stereo & mono. In my simplistic tearms, its a design aspect of eqing, ie when eqing the phase shifts a bit and designers like George Massenburg were famous for designing eq's with minimal phase shift. Linear phase eq's are also available as plugins but sound sterile so are often not used......(someone who knows what they're talking about can fill in the blanks)

[heathen]

Honestly Dwayne I'll always prefer good outboard eq's over nearly all plugins. Just my opinion. As for phase and eq's, Rick knows a few things about this. :)

[DwaneHollands]

@Jamil, at the moment I don't have any outboard EQ. I've got that RND Portico II coming soon though. Which I'm eager to try out!

@Chris, Yeah just wondering whether or not it's more fluffy and thinner with these plugins. Sterile is a good way to put it!

@Heath....Yeah I know you like your outboard! ha ha. Actually you've been highly instrumental in converting me to buying some quality outboard gear and to steer away from plugins. Hence the Portico II purchase and an M-Audio Ultra 8R interface to give me more i/o. (8 out, 8 in) And an SSL4000 clone buss compressor...yummy!

I'm obsessed with outboard now! I want to get a lunch box eventually with 2 x API 527 comps or an API 2500 rack! haha. And one of those API 8200A summing units. (listen to a comparision of summed ITB versus API 8200 and it was fantastic!). That stuff has to wait quite a while, but I'm beginning to become a believer in OTB analogue summing! Particularily as I get frustrated with sterility in my recordings. I think I'm a 'colour junky'. Want stuff that colours the sound!

You're a bad influence Heath....ha ha.

[Chris H]

@Jamil, at the moment I don't have any outboard EQ. I've got that RND Portico II coming soon though. Which I'm eager to try out!

@Chris, Yeah just wondering whether or not it's more fluffy and thinner with these plugins. Sterile is a good way to put it!

@Heath....Yeah I know you like your outboard! ha ha. Actually you've been highly instrumental in converting me to buying some quality outboard gear and to steer away from plugins. Hence the Portico II purchase and an M-Audio Ultra 8R interface to give me more i/o. (8 out, 8 in) And an SSL4000 clone buss compressor...yummy!

I'm obsessed with outboard now! I want to get a lunch box eventually with 2 x API 527 comps or an API 2500 rack! haha. And one of those API 8200A summing units. (listen to a comparision of summed ITB versus API 8200 and it was fantastic!). That stuff has to wait quite a while, but I'm beginning to become a believer in OTB analogue summing! Particularily as I get frustrated with sterility in my recordings. I think I'm a 'colour junky'. Want stuff that colours the sound!

You're a bad influence Heath....ha ha.

I love my outboard and desk etc but i don't think it's the only answer to fix, as you put it, sterility in recordings. I think more is to be gained with mic technique, creative use of spill and most important the quality of the performance or playing being recorded.

[heathen]

Yeah I agree with Chris there too. Don't listen to me too much or you'll end up broke but with great outboard gear. Honestly though if you are starting to like your outboard gear that much I'd recommend a small format analog console with good eq's, some decent ones can be had so cheap these days.

Then again if it dies it's expensive to fix, ahhhh hell everything is bloody expensive. Seeing you got into audio yer probably gonna end up broke anyway, so buy up dude. :)

500gearsuxsaveyourcashandgetbetterstuff, ooops did I say that???????????? Thinking out loud again. Doh!

[heathen]

I had an API 2500, great unit, I wish i did'nt sell it. Double doh!

Actually I think a Cranesong stc8 will be my next purchase if I keep doing audio in the future.

[DwaneHollands]

Yeah I agree with Chris there too. Don't listen to me too much or you'll end up broke but with great outboard gear. Honestly though if you are starting to like your outboard gear that much I'd recommend a small format analog console with good eq's, some decent ones can be had so cheap these days.

Then again if it dies it's expensive to fix, ahhhh hell everything is bloody expensive. Seeing you got into audio yer probably gonna end up broke anyway, so buy up dude. :)

500gearsuxsaveyourcashandgetbetterstuff, ooops did I say that???????????? Thinking out loud again. Doh!

Ha ha. Can't go past those Telefunken W495 eq's huh?

[heathen]

Yeah I agree with Chris there too. Don't listen to me too much or you'll end up broke but with great outboard gear. Honestly though if you are starting to like your outboard gear that much I'd recommend a small format analog console with good eq's, some decent ones can be had so cheap these days.

Then again if it dies it's expensive to fix, ahhhh hell everything is bloody expensive. Seeing you got into audio yer probably gonna end up broke anyway, so buy up dude. :)

500gearsuxsaveyourcashandgetbetterstuff, ooops did I say that???????????? Thinking out loud again. Doh!

Ha ha. Can't go past those Telefunken W495 eq's huh?

Well there are a lot of "W" German eq's, Nuemann, Telefunken, Filtek, Siemens, yeah they are great little eq's I like em. Used them all over Jamils album. But still I'll say I love my Avalon eq too. See that's the problem eq's are sooooo bloody expensive, that's why if you can find a great desk with great eq's for a couple of grand you will be almost totally covered for eq. 1 Avalon costs about $4000, you could get a decent desk for that these days with 40 eq's in it.

Dunno just never got much out of my lunchbox, way better than plugs but still not really great.