Valve Limiting Amplifiers

[EvLoutonian]

Hello all,

I'm Evan. Relatively new to the list. Trying to get a bit of a more decent recording set-up together. Melbourne-based.
(just posted this on For Sale / Wanted list. Figure this is a better place for it)...

I'm wanting to ask a question of those more experienced with the vintage gear out there:

What are your favourites amongst the old valve Limiting Amplifiers and similar units?

I'm on the look-out for an old AWA BIG-1 or similar unit, but there seem to be many variations, all with varying characteristics and features -
with the further possibility of mod's as well, for the extra controls etc.

But are there are some models that stand above the rest in your opinions?
And any that are actually not so great?
(I'm otherwise assuming all old AWA broadcast type gear is worth using, but worth asking anyway...)

Also, what is usually involved with tweaking these up for modern studio use? I saw the work Pro Harmonics does, which looks awesome.

Thanks!

[rick]

well the first stop is to find out that the awa big -1 isnt a valve limiter at all ! -its transistor !

but if you knew that the next stop is to realise that any vintage valve limiters are pretty hard to stumble across even for the not so casual gear hunter
but if persist and if you put the time in you would probably find your time versus results calculator in the number of vintage valve limiters you find
would probably indicate buying 2nd hand "non vintage valve limiters " is by far your best bang for buck .

for reasons i cannot understand the manley gear has fallen out of favour and you can pick up varimu or elops really cheap 2nd( or third) hand all over the place
this is a better place to start with the big heavy stuff me thinks

[Chinagraf]

- Just because it's valve doesn't mean it's better.
- Just because it colours your signal doesn't mean it is a good colour for any given mix.
- You might as well hunt things like LA2A's because most of the other sleeper stuff is now stupidly priced and in the same ballpark. (Sta Level anyone?)
- Valve gear innards are high voltage. Don't mess around in there unless you are qualified. It would be a shame to die for the sake of a few hundred bucks.
- My other bit of advice would be if you do find one try using it for a while before you go and get it modded up to the wazoo. Modding everything everyway possible is all the rage due to the internut but a lot of older stuff is designed that way because that's where it operates at it's best. Some varimu comps just weren't meant to have super fast releases. Some of the mods I've seen on old gear are quite frightening. I'm not talking about Rob, just some of the amatuer efforts I've come across.
Cheers :)

[rick]

oh and we are both just trying to help here :)

[13thbeach]

oh and we are both just trying to help here :)

haha! you just need to read between the lines!!

[Ben M]

Hi Evan
Now I was mixing today and using my 2 AWA big 1’s (double bass and vocal) and was even looking inside the units……………. and I didn’t see any valves in there. :)

But, I think you are talking about the 2G58250 and other compressors that AWA made which are amazing on vocal and bass duties (two instruments that are really hard to place in any mix). BTW, the Big 1 ‘s are also fantastic for these duties especially with rob’s attack/release mod - their just not valve though.
AWA 2G58250 compressors go for around $5K or who knows?@*). Big, round, leveling and complement these particular instruments in a mix by keeping their weight evenly across the balance without large amounts of pumping or noticeable effect.
In other words they level stuff with complementary tone without too many side effects. I loved using these and would dearly love to own one. :)
I’m looking for a Gates sta (yes I know Andy ;-0 ) which again have similar characteristics and have shown to be more affordable recently. Teletronix LA2A’s mmmmm. Just input and output (or input and gain reduction) mostly and very few parameters. Just the sound that glues certain things into the puzzle.
Retro instruments gear I would love to hear (sta and 176). They've had good feedback.

Just on the large valve compressor units – be prepared to regularly maintain and calibrate to keep the unit at its optimum usage. This could be another thing to take into account.
Anyway...
What are we going to say about the whole valve colouring thingy?

Welcome to the forum Evan.

[Linear]

so evan, have you got an AWA G58 or not???? (you emailed me saying you just got one...)

anyway, here is my 2c. for those of you considering dropping 5 large on an AWA G58, save your money and get a Thermionic Culture Phoenix mastering compressor instead.

It is so good, I can't believe it. So transparent, so clean, everything just comes out sounding nicer. Can either be used tracking (as dual mono) or as something to strap across a mix buss. The G58 is good, but not as good IMHO. If you want to hear varimu compression, get a G58. If you want transparency, clarity and fairy dust, get a Phoenix.

Chris

[EvLoutonian]

Hello all!

Thanks for the replies!

The reason I asked the question is because I have been getting into exploring the merits of some of this old broadcast / recording gear (AWA/RCA etc) and got on the hunt for what to look out for whilst scouring the internetz and general used gear market, seeing as my guitar valve amp interests have exposed me to a bit of contact with vintage radio gear and the like, and I noticed a bit of cross-over between these worlds.

Turns out one such contact had me chatting with a fella who was offering a "valve limiter" a few days ago that he'd picked up ex-ABC at some stage, and of course my ears (and brain) went POP! Achtung!

I pictured the AWA badge and unassuming model number and appearance of these old beauties, lying in the back of some guy's shed, and that's when I posted the query to the forum board here, just to try to find out what I could about these units, before turning up at the fella's house with next to no idea what I might be looking at.

Well, turns out I was in for a treat. What he had was an old AWA "Constant Volume and Limiting Amplifier" - Yes, the "G58250" to those more familiar. It's the one with the 5U4G rectifier.
I was stoked. Of course I purchased it - along with some other nice stuff too, like a "Magnecorder" Type PT6-J (tape recorder front end / amplifier) and a pair of PRESTO RECORDING CORP "Type 40-A" pre-amps of some sort, but he'd stripped three out of four of the transformers from these units, unfortunately.
I think these are simply tape recorder (or record-cutting lathe) pre-amps, with switching on the front panel for 30/200/500 ohm input - which is probably the function of the missing (presumably input matching) transformers. Hoping to put most of this stuff to use at some stage, anyway, when I can get it tweaked up..

But don't worry, I won't be rushing out to have it modded up the wazoo.

Thanks for the info and other advice / suggestions on the more affordable studio options along the same lines.
And thanks for the welcome to the forum!

PS. I have a pair of Neumann KM85's that I'll be putting up for sale on eBay at some stage this month. Feel free to get in touch for more info on them.

Cheers!
Ev.

[Chris H]

Ha Ha! Classic. So you got yourself an old shearing shed PA. Full marks to you.......can't help feeling like calling you a smart arse though :)

[EvLoutonian]

hehe - INDEED!

It's not often these crazy finds come along though, is it... Gotta enjoy it when it happens to you!

(:

Ha Ha! Classic. So you got yourself an old shearing shed PA. Full marks to you.......can't help feeling like calling you a smart arse though :)

[rick]

looks like your in the big old heavy club then

[Kurt]

My band is old and heavy... But my gear isn't

looks like your in the big old heavy club then

[Mitch Kenny]

My mum is old and heavy but she doesn't sound any good.

[Kurt]

Nor do we!

My mum is old and heavy but she doesn't sound any good.

[EvLoutonian]

Thanks Rick,

Good to be in the big old heavy club...
(:

Here's a pic or two - or three, actually!

AWA G58250 front.jpg

AWA G58250 front open.jpg

AWA G58250 back.jpg

Lovely!

Just gotta figure out how to get it hooked up now...
Replace some cap's etc..

[rick]

got an external power supply..?

[EvLoutonian]

got an external power supply..?

oh shit.. I had the impression the power supply is built in there somewhere on this one!?
?

[rob]

yep this is the only AWA tube limiter with an inbuilt mains transformer and power supply.

be wary of those screw terminal tag strips when you do get it powered up. One has the full 300Vdc rail on it

[EvLoutonian]

Woah! Thanks Rob. Good to know about the high voltage there!

[rick]

what about the tranny thats missing on the back rob ..?
could be a factory mod i suppose

[rob]

indeed...the back of that unit isn't original looking. Also that rectifier isn't original.

who knows what dab hands have messed with the unit over the years

[13thbeach]

what about the tranny thats missing on the back rob ..?
could be a factory mod i suppose

I have the same type of G58 (with the rectifier valve). Mine looks exactly the same.

[EvLoutonian]

Weyheyhey..

Mat, sounds like we might have a consecutive pair from the same (once upon a time) installation...
what ya reckon? Is your's ex-ABC? Apparently that's the lineage of my one.

Mine came off the line first, of course.. the older brother..
but last to get hooked up in this decade!
hehe

[rick]

festival records had a pair of them in the harris street studio ( pyrmont )
in the fifties and early sixties , well according to photographs i have seen .
they never made it to the miller street studios ie 1960s on
go figure

[norm]

I also have a pair of them sitting on the shelf thanks to Mat as well as a pair of G51, I would like some G54's when you find em for me Mat. Regards Norm

[EvLoutonian]

Has anyone got any of the Transmission Products stuff and can post some pics / info?

[Hybrid88]

Has anyone got any of the Transmission Products stuff and can post some pics / info?

You mean Sydney Transmission Products? I have an APO TMS make up gain amplifier, posted about it here early this year to find out more about it - apparently used in the post masters general department as a line amp for early telephone setups (just to boost the signal I guess, so not a limiter as such).

Actually if anyone knows a museum or collection that's open to the public (early communications in Aus or radio museum, something along those lines) who might be interested, I'd think about donating it.

[13thbeach]

I also have a pair of them sitting on the shelf thanks to Mat as well as a pair of G51, I would like some G54's when you find em for me Mat. Regards Norm

Yeah thats right Norm, I've found a few now but now I need to find one more for myself. Anyone out there selling a G58, let me know.

[EvLoutonian]

How many have you found, Mat?

[13thbeach]

Well I've found a few.....but then again some found me.