Apogee Symphony I/O

[Ben M]

Has anyone had a listen yet?
Any thoughts about compatibility probs with cards or PT9?

I'm thinking of doing a full upgrade of 'puter, AD/DA hardware, and running PT9.
Sorry but I'm not willing to wade through the endless crud and bickering on GS so I thought I'd asked the more mature T'rock crew.

I'd be very interested to hear peoples thoughts on this system (or alternatives);

Apogee Symphony I/O with (2) 8x8x8 cards installed, Mac Pro, symphony 64 card, PT9.


cheers

[musikwerks]

No experience with the Symphony but I'm pretty sure you can get better bang for buck with a Lynx system.

Another alternative would be an SSL Madi system. Those converters are seriously good value for what you get (48 i/o per box).

[Linear]

I use Apogee Symphony, I think it works and sounds great. I've got 1 AD16X, 2 DA16X and 1 x Apogee Rosetta.

Using logic I can get latency down to 32 samples no probs. I don't use plugins, so I can't speak on that.

Previously, to use protools I had to connect up an m-audio lightbridge to the apogees. This worked, but it was clunky and not that reliable. this was just to get more than 18 I/O.

I recently upgraded to PT9, and so far it's been flawless. I will say though that I've only been able to 'see' 24 I/O but I've never needed to use more so far so it hasn't been an issue. PT9 only goes down to 64 samples, but I don't think this is a major issue.

Chris

[mylesgm]

Depending on the situation you find yourself in the new RME interface (which will work with PT9 of course) will allow you to use 2x 16channel adda adat converters of your choice plus the 10 ad/da on the box plus monitoring setup and there is DSP in the rack box to for full monitoring with eq and reverb etc for the headphone sends. I'm think about doing this the next big location job that comes my way as I'll be able to do lots of headphone sends with their own mixes with eq etc without taxing the computer or worrying about latency. The adat ports will do smux but then I think you've only got 8 adda rather than 16 adda. All depends on the setup you want.

At home I've got a lynx aurora 16 setup and its rock solid and sounds great. People often forget that the aurora 16 is actually a 32 channel box, its got the 16 adda but it also has 16 aes i/o and if you add a converter like an apogee ad16 you can stream 32 in and 16 out or 16 in and 32 out (with a DA16 etc) and this is addressable with PT HD via the LT-HD card. I think its limited to 32/16 by the current HD system but that might have changed with PT9. Or you could use a lynx with a firewire card.

And there's the SSL stuff too. Actually we're kind of spoilt for choice now that PT9 doesn't require avid hardware. Haven't looked into wether you can use any interface with HD or wether you still need to use an AVID unit for that.

so many choices!

[The Tasmanian]

Its all crazy with PT9 now - its changed everything!!!
I too have a Maudio lightbridge and a 002 at home and am looking at getting rid of it all and getting a new system to get 32 ins and 32 outs from PT9 (using my exixting) Mytek 192 8ch AD-DA.
So i need a 16 channel AD DA that I can add my Mytek via lightpipe to get 32 in and out with the least amount of latency.
So many choices - I need to move on it real soon and get a system that will keep me going for a good few years without strangling my wallet.
Any recommendations?
I am trying to avoid the HD disease this time around......
Myles which model RME were you talking about?

[SteveL]

Myles which model RME were you talking about?

I think Myles may have been talking about the new RME Fireface UFX...

Steve

[The Tasmanian]

I was thinking Madi may be the way to go - RME HDSPe - or the SSL Madi stuff.....

[The Tasmanian]

Kristian - the SSL Madi AX is incredible value - hard to beat really

[Ben M]

I'm so confused..........

I hate these markets that forever change and you have to sort of jump on the boat when you can and then at some point you have to learn to swim when things update or better, stronger, faster equipment comes along. It's hard to make choices when there are so many good choices about. Yet we still don't know what could be out next week.

Like you Chris I ultimately want to stay away from the Avid digi gear and find an alternative that will give me a minimum 16 analog in and 24 analog out. Also I feel like firewire would be problematic after 16 odd channels plus plugins etc...Anyone?

Definately want to use PT9 with the new purchases though....


I like the idea of the Aurora 16 but I'd have to get Avid cards if I didn't do the firewire option.
The new PT native card seems good for connecting 64 in/out but ultimately relies on the computer for all processing. Not sure about this one.
New Symphony I/O looks yummy but would need another interface to achieve 24 out. Big price tag.
Maybe if there's not a massive difference between the AD16x and the new Symphony I/O I could pick up these as people are migrating to the new stuff.

I think Andy (chinagraph) is using the SSL Madi system, maybe he could pipe in for a quick review? Andy are you around??

What's involved with the SSL Madi install - card and interface wise? Usability? Sound?

cheers

[mylesgm]

Hi Ben,

On the firewire side I can say that the system has been absolutely rock solid in many many different situations from studio tracking (I've personally done 24+ a number of times with 4 stereo submixes for monitoring) plus a main mix out, live performances with multichannel audio performances/live mic processing/lots of routing and over 24 tracks recording at the same time etc. Used it with different external converters simultaneously, clocked internally or externally, with multiple software (PT9, DP, Max/MSP, Logic, coreaudio) in fact I've pushed the fireface 800 as far it would go and never had a problem. I've used it on several different computers too and installation has been a breeze. I think that with the addition of eq/compression/reverb dsp on the new fireface ufx series these units will just get better. And the one thing it seems to have over all the other competition is portability. I hook it up to the laptop by one cable and away we go. It may not suit your particular work but if does but you are wary of the idea of firewire then you should go for it.

M

[Linear]

I don't want to poo-poo the RME stuff, it's of a very high quality. But we had an RME interface here and when A/Bing with the Apogee DA16X, the difference was noticeable. I'm not sure if it' just how they interface with an analog console (apogee makes a point of this), but the Apogees seemed to have a clarity and bottom end that the RME's just didn't have. I thought the RME's sounded more mid-rangey.

Then again, some have said that apogees are a little smiley face, maybe that's what they meant. Note that we were clocking the RME off the apogee too.

Chris

[The Tasmanian]

Its nice to be able to keep the convertors we like, trust and have put our hard earned $ behind
And now be in a situation to recombine our past investments with current new protools 9 is a really good thing ......
I dig the sound of my Mytek's - wont swap them for anything that's currently around and want to keep them integrated into my system for a long while yet.
I dont think the Aurora's or RMEs stack up against the Apogee's convertor's

[mylesgm]

Well if you want to use your current converters then an interface that gives you either lightpipe or aes inputs to the computer is what you need. The RME will do that for adat and you dont have to use the converters in the RME which is how I'm using the apogee ad16 and really that is for location work and provides a good result. I quite like the sound or lack of in my aurora system but haven't had a chance to listen to the myteks.

I'm really pleased that PT finally allows me to use that gear and to easily move files, sessions etc. bit pissed that I had to pay for HD for all the functionality that I needed and can now get most of out of PT9...

[Ender]

Its nice to be able to keep the convertors we like, trust and have put our hard earned $ behind
And now be in a situation to recombine our past investments with current new protools 9 is a really good thing ......

I agree.. I think that was one of the best bits of news, to actually have an upgrade path on existing gear within the PT world. I couldn't consider greater than 16 analog outs before into the desk without basically replacing the whole rig and moving away from PT.

I've been waiting for some solid reviews on the new Apogee unit too. It definitely isn't cheap, but it looks really attractive as a quality (?) convertor that can be expanded as you go, with the added bonus (I assume) of basically being able to add a Big Ben (type) clock to existing PT LE rigs before you have the cash to replace them with another module. But haven't seen any real reviews on it yet; I guess its still pretty new and pricey to have many of them out there.

I was really keen for the Aurora 16 a while ago and read lots of great things on it.. but looking into it, it did seem a pretty expensive path, at least buying locally. Going off retail prices only, the Aurora 16 is still $4k + LT expansion card (~$500 ish?). Then there's the comments one might read saying the Aurora "could" be improved with a Big Ben clock, which could be considered as an optional cost to go down that path.. of course, not required.. but if so, makes the price close enough to at least make you consider other options like the new Apogee.

Not to its favour, I found local prices on Lynx stuff though seems pretty expensive compared to o/s, especially given the market changes in the last couple of years. The RME's do seem very flexible and pretty great value for the price. Avid's rigs still seem pretty pricey in comparison. Without having heard any of the above except an RME800 (yet!), the Apogee still seems to be a pretty good offering as an "upgrade".

[musikwerks]

The SSL Madi AX system will give you 24 channels of analog i/o PLUS 24 adat i/o at the same time. Effectively giving you 48 i/o.

There is nothing I can see that can compete on price/features.

It will set you back about $3,500 at the moment (with MADI card)

http://cgi.ebay.com/SSL-MADI-Xtreme-64- ... 003wt_1141

[The Tasmanian]

SSl Madi has some great raps too as far as the analog convertors go .... To get 24in and out for $3.5k Plus 24 digital I/O beats everything for price hands down - one system - add your own flavour AD DA's for your personal tastes.

[Ben M]

How's the Latency?

[Ben M]

Latency of SSL;

http://www.solid-state-logic.com/music/ ... rmance.asp

[Ben M]

Latency of Symphony I/o;

http://www.apogeedigital.com/products/s ... system.php

[Ben M]

Does that suggest the SSL has better latency at 96khz? Not that there's much difference. Still confused

[musikwerks]

I don't think the latency on either system will be a problem. Can't speak for the Apogee but I know the SSL is fine.

[Ben M]

Everything looks great with the SSL system.... but the new Symphony I/O is getting some very nice comments elsewhere and people are updating in droves. I can't see myself needing more than 16 in and I'd be able to achieve 24 out with the Symphony also...plus it's more expandable later if needed.
It's really comes down to a price thing now.....