Sound Recording For Film/TV

[toddd]

Hi all,

wondering if anyone out there specialises in this? i did my first boom type work last week for a mate (who also has next to no experience with field recording to tape).

my specific queary relates to standard (or optimum) levels to digital recording media in the film/tv industry. the guy i was working for wanted to run everything super hot onto DV and digi-beta tapes. after a couple of playbacks (with HEAPS of overs and alot of unlistenable sound) i told him we should be using 0dBv on the mixer to be around -15/18dB on the tape as a reference (thats what i've done in the past with analogue/digtal levels). I was told by an industry pro and experienced camera guy a couple of days later that -20dB was the norm.

my 'boss/mate' still isn't convinced, saying the level is too low (my reply; "turn it up").

any tips? Criticisms?

[Jason Dirckze]

It depends on your field mixer too... Im using a Wendt X5, and I send a 400Hz tone from the mixer at 0dBVU to the camera, and aim set the camera so it is hitting -20

It may also depend on the camera. The PD-150's (Mini DV) are semi-pro, the Digi Beta's are pro...so there will be a difference there. Most have some attenuation controls though.

The thing is you need enough headroom to avoid overs, and it is not really ideal to let the limiter on the mixer kick in.

[Kris]

Ok, having spent a fair amount of time in my career syncing rushes I think I might have some info that will help.

Zero for TV is minus 10db. Most location soundies will have channel one peaking at around zero and then the same signal going to channel 2 but 20db down. That way if there is a clip on channel one there is still useable audio on two. You might think it's not necessary but the ADR and Mix guys in post production will love you for it. I see that on every major film/tv shoot I have ever done (and that's 15 years worth).

Location audio may go to the camera if shooting on tape but it will also almost always go to a DAT/DA-88 or, more commonly these days, BWAV format with all sorts of meta data attatched (take number, camera t/c etc).

Never run mini DV too hot. Remember, no matter what the sales brochure says, it is not a professional format, it is pro-sumer at best. Try hiring a digi beta or HD cam and see the difference in audio functionality and connectivity and then compare that to mini dv.

Your mate is jeopardising everyone else's hard work on location by not being sensible with his audio. You only get one shot on the day and ADR is expensive and time consuming. I'm guessing if you're shooting mini dv you are short on budget. Make it count and get it right the first time.

Good luck.

[Luke Garfield]

Thanks Kris for that cool little tip. Hopefully that'll come in handy for me in the future.

[toddd]

Thanks for the feedback guys.

PD-150 definitely semi (at the best) pro. Wouldn't use one if I could help it.

Cheers, todd.

[chris p]

A timely topic - I've just been handed a cassette tape from a wedding and asked to do what I can. The levels were right for the speaking bits, the instruments are right, and 2 out of the three singers BUT ....

The third singer's level was way too hot, and distorts the whole recording just about whenever he opens his mouth. Not the nice harmonic stuff - we're talking serious overs onto a consumer cassette deck.

Does anyone have any secret technique for getting the best possible out of this situation? Suggested EQ notches? Creative ideas? I've thought of adding distortion to everything else on the tape and making it a grunge fest, so the singing at least doesn't stand out. Any suggestions gratefully received.

Oh, and let this be a salutary story to back up the sheer brilliance of Kris's advice. A -20db recording I can bring up to level, a distorted mess will always be a distorted mess.

[Kurt]

I'd try and find out if there's another source, maybe Aunt Mavis videoed it from the back row?

You may have some luck with some of the noise reduction plugins and eq if there is no other option.

[Howard Jones]

Advise your client that one cannot polish a turd.

[chris p]

The sad thing is, of course, that the mix was basically mono anyway, with practically no panning, so it COULD have been done using L as 0db and R as the -20db, using the deck's "record level" slider.

Advise your client that one cannot polish a turd.

= Howard

Well, you're wrong there Mr Jones - apparently you can!
http://news.ninemsn.com.au/article.aspx?id=126413

[Howard Jones]

Wow! Just confirms my thoughts about some of Hollywood's "finest".