Colourbond shed studio conversion

[Gian]

Hi all, it's time to get my "stuff" out of every room of my house. I am looking for ideas and/or pitfalls you may see.

I have a colourbond shed that I would like to convert to a studio space.

I would like to do some tracking, mostly acoustic instruments, elec guitar, bass, percussion, vocals.

I would also like to use the space to mix.

The shed is 5.5m by 3.5m and has a cement slab the same size.

It has a steel frame with colour bond on the outside and also the roof. It currently has a roller door.

Here are my initial thoughts:
Remove the roller door, close it up and replace with a door. Not sure what sort of door to get.
Take the roof off and lay Anticon blanket then screw roof back down.
Put up some furring channel and insulate both walls and feeling with rockwool, then line with 13mm gyprock, or perhaps two layers of 10mm gyprock.
Replace window with the "polar" bunnings ones Rick told Angus about.
Don't know about the floor yet. I might just put carpet tiles down to start with.

Anyway, that's as far as I have gotten with planning and thinking.

Any thoughts would be greatly appreciated.


line the walls and ceiling

[wez]

Why not build a room within the room? that way you don't have to alter the existing structure or deal with it's inherent problems.

[Gian]

Hi Wez, room within a room? As in stud walls and ceiling? Unattached to the existing structure ?

[Gian]

With respect to the door: do you suggest just a solid wooden one?

[Alistair]

Just as a thought-
Years ago I helped convert a tin shed for my brother to use (drummer). I also left a bit of recording equipment in there. Without fully insulating the roof, noise in the shed was actually louder outside than in. The tin vibrated with whatever sound source and acted like a loudspeaker.
We managed to find some thick insulation (probably about 5-6 inches thick), which we covered the walls and roof with. We then covered the insulation and floor with marine carpet- short carpet with a thick plastic backing.

The room is quite dead and sounds ok inside, but I would say outside volume is about the same as just setting up a drumkit in the backyard. After all that work, we probably got it back to the stage of "normal", rather than soundproofed as the tin just added so much noise.

If you want soundproofing- the room within a room that others mentioned is probably the only way to go. As far as just getting an ok sound inside, I'd use some light insulation everywhere, and scour the trading post/ebay for some old stage curtains. Heavy curtains work as a quick fix, and if you need something live, you can just pull them back.

[ChrisW]

Just adding to Alistair's comments above.
This was my main plan when buying my current property.
It hasn't (so far) worked out.
I looked into this and researched the subject extensively.
I have no building skills so this is something you may be able to improve on my lack of results with.

I got a couple of very reasonable, intelligent local builders in to cost the room within a room concept.
The quotes were astronomical. Granted, my tin shed is quite big, but you have to build to certain safety standards as the internal roof can't fall in on you while you're working. Also, not many tin sheds are completely weather proof. So do you seal the outer shell completely, or allow moisture to seep in over time, gradually destroying your internal structure. Second, without a complete and comprehensive seal, do you let vermin build their homes in the space between the outer tin and internal room. Birds, rats? Snakes? Mice eating away at your internal structure and wiring.
Don't know about where you live but my tin shed easily hits 50c on many summer days. It's freezing for much of winter.
How are you able to work in those conditions, do you accept AC noise in the studio? Is there ventilation for AC and heating, does that let the sound out? How do the extremes of temperature effect your gear?
In the end, the smaller your shed, the quality of the tin shed construction, your own building talents and willingness to graft greatly impact on the cost and positive outcome. I haven't found a way to make the sums add up in my scenario, but that's not saying you wont. Just research all possible costs and pitfalls.

[Ben M]

Gian...my 2 bobs worth.

If your thinking of tracking acoustic gtr's and using open mics in general I'd think your opportunities are limited... sorry to say. A small tin shed is a nightmare in all sorts of weather. In wind it will rattle like a freight train, the noise of rain will be deafening regardless of your roofing/wall insulation and then there's nature... cicada's etc... also in the hot sun steel expands and then in the arvo it will contract when it cools... all of these sounds will show up in your mics. So nice spring days and quite evenings will be your only windows for tracking. In other words your tracking times will be determined for you rather than you selecting when it's good for you.
Mixing won't be a problem... of course ... but the sound design is paramount as you would know.
I think the height of your shed ceiling will also be an issue for acoustic sound purposes.

To get things right in your shed you'll need a fair bit of free space on all walls and ceiling for air gaps and materials to reduce the noise for those open mics... If your serious about getting clean unobstructed signal. You know... you do the take of your life, and then there's an outside sound that makes it unusable.

I know that I'm being the barer of bad news but this is my advice. Take it or leave it.
Personally I would sell the shed as a unit and use the slab to build something solid and usable. Design it from the slab up. Built from materials that you know are going to help you record and mix 24/7 365 days a year... when and how your want.

I may be over doing what you ultimately had in mind but I'm imagining that you have standards in acoustics, unwanted noise and various mic placement distances that you'd like to up keep.

I will stop rambling now... that's what I'd do anyway.

All the very best.

[Ben M]

Just saw Chris' post as I was posting and agree with the heat, cold, aircon, sealing and vermin factors as well. Shed's are a real bitch aren't they? Otherwise we'd all have them.

cheers

[Alistair]

Yeah- just to agree with the other guys- this shed has flooded numerous times, and god knows what lives between the insulation and outside walls. The walls are actually timber with a wooden roof, I imagine it would be even louder with full tin construction.
Years ago I tracked a few things in that room- just little demos and the like. It was fine for what it was, but outside noise was a huge issue. Almost impossible to record anything quiet ("Ok guys, just wait till the wind gust is over so the tree branch stops scraping across the roof..." etc)

And as far as the room within a room thing- for soundproofing, that is entirely based on having air pockets between the walls/airtight seals. Obviously you're not going to get anything like that from colourbond. Knock it down and start again!

[Kurt]

The drummer in my band has a "room within a room" inside his garage, it was around $10k to have built (he didn't do it himself) He jams with his several bands most nights of the week and has no complaints from his neighbours. Basically I think you can forget the metal cladding as a layer, it will do nothing to attenuate sound. The ideal is apparently mass-air-mass, Drummers room is ply-insulation-gyprock. The whole room floats over the slab. There's no AC, it gets bloody warm in mid-summer but it's ok most of the time.

[rob]

The ProHarmonic workshop is in a shed. I built a timber frame within the tin walls by about 25cm. Packed the gap with insulation and put gyprock up on the frame. It gets hot in summer and cold in winter, now relieved with an air conditioner and low frequencies easily leak out. Now as a workshop it is fine, as a studio it would be useless. One day while testing a Marshall stack a chap who lived around 500 metres away wandered down the driveway to see what was up and asked if I wanted to have a jam sometime.

[peterfitz]

I've done done the shed thing, I've started writing I bit of a studio history page (not finished yet).

An old shed, 3 pallets of 19x800x3600mm Yellow tongue chipboard flooring, LOTS and lots of fibreglass, bags of the shit (I hate fibreglass so bad) it's the gift that keeps on giving. Know I'm sometimes prone to going overboard the main wall between the control room and the main has a total thickness of 300mm and a Glass thickness of 24mm (1inch) using 2 sheets of (2 x 6mm laminated glass) between all rooms you can play drums full noise in the iso booth and talk in a whispers only 2m away that's very cool.


My studio history page (not finished yet) >>
http://www.bluecrystalcreative.com/serv ... istory.php

[Gian]

Firstly let me say thanks to all who have replied. I appreciate it lots. Feel free to keep the comments coming.

Secondly, as I read the comments I have gone through several emotions, lol.

I have been very discouraged, but then encouraged. I don't really have much choice in using this shed - I'm stuck with it, so I will make the best of the situation.

I have spent the last two weeks clearing the shed out, it was being used mostly for storage - you could barely get in. Now there's a corner where I can make my valve amps and I am clearing the other end where the desk, computer, pres, ad/da is going.

I sold a heap of stuff on eBay and subsequently bought some JLM audio pres with the funds. I have a trailer fun off stuff that needs to go to the tip. It has been a very satisfying two weeks.

I will work on the shed bit by bit. It's fun in the planning and in doing the construction a bit at a time.

[waitup]

As the other guys have said, basically, achieving sound isolation comes down to 3 things:

Mass - If an object is not massive (i.e it doesn't weigh much), sound likes to walk right through it
Resilience - If two objects are touching without some kind of resilient material to decouple them, sound passes from one to the other
Air-tightness - If sound can find some air to travel it... IT WILL!

Unfortunately tin sheds in the back yard are usually neither massive nor air tight, which makes them unlikely, but not impossible candidates for studio spaces. The upside is that they're usually sitting on some kind of concrete slab in the earth which is separate to the slab you home is on (and possibly more importantly than your neighbors homes are on) ... this is your first step to keeping the lady friend happy.

A quick skim read of any type of studio acoustics 101 book will learn you that a single wall is rarely enough, unless it's bomb-proof concrete. So as has been mentioned here, you're going to want to employ what people like to call a "room-within-a-room". BUT, before you can even think about going down that path you'll need to do some work to the existing shed in satisfy the above criteria. You'll need to add mass. Mass can be added in the form of insulation and a layer of yellow-tongue or MDF, but most importantly, you've got to do it EVERYWHERE. There's no point stuffing all of your walls with tons of tontine and 3 layers of MDF if you leave the ceiling done half-arsed... it will be as good as if you'd done nothing at all. You'll also need to make the existing structure air tight. Of course making a building air tight brings up another annoying problem... how you gonna breath! Air con is really the only way to go but unfortunately sound likes to travel down air-conditioning ducts. There are designs for ways around this but everything is a compromise to the integrity of your sound isolation. I guess you just gotta ask yourself how good does it need to be?

With the existing shed air-tight and significant mass added, only now can you add the "room within the room". If you skimp out doing the shed itself properly, you might as well build your next room under a tarp in the backyard, because all the shed will do is keep the rain off it. The next room inside should again meet the air tightness and mass requirements, but it should never be firmly coupled to the existing shed. That means all the walls need to either sit on a floating floor or on some kind of rubber decoupling pads. There are specifically designed glues for decoupling surfaces where screwing or nailing would be a compromise. Doors need to be massive and airtight of course also, as the room is only as good as the thinnest bit.

I could blab on all day, but really I think the best advice is to buy this book and devour it before you even think about hitting a nail or hanging a door. http://www.amazon.com/Home-Recording-St ... _b_title_0

Alternatively, bog up all the gaps you can find, insulate where you can, bang up some MDF sheets, put up with the stuffy heat, get real friendly with the neighbors and try to only make noise when it's appropriate!!

[rick]

dont be put off because its a tin shed , i have seen dozens of tin shed studios

just work with what you have knowing there are always issues - there are ALWAYS issues

the main issue you will have will be sound isolation , you can add some insulation and an internal "shell" right to the existing structure that will knock down 60-70 % of your issues straight up and cheap enough

the only way to finish the job is with a room within a room design and that becomes more money and hassle

but dont stress over that - pick your days with a single layer
dont record in the rain or howling wind ( or cicada session ) and you can probably be assured some good times for the rest of the year

the trick is you must make it totally airtight no matter how you get about making it sound proof

so put a cheap bunnings airconditioner on your budget list !

just work with what you got its not the material its clad in so much as the airtightness
get three boxes of fuller firesound and make it airtight ... first !

Rain will be your enemy in every way .... it is with any studio structure
before you do anything expensive wait until a really raining day and go outside and sit in your shed - look for the leaks- listen to how much noise it makes

make sure your shed is out of any water "trap" and wont "flood" so you are not actually wasting your time

that will be a drag

try and enjoy the process

"a mans shed is his studio "

[The Tasmanian]

Being a builder/carpenter by trade - Ive built a few garage/home studios for mates over the years.
The big problem you will have is if the structure is thin metal studs that come with most garages built in the last 20 years using very lightweight steel framing.
IE: you have no support for any heavy structure.

If it were my garage ( and I wasn't a tennant) then I would install a new stud wall just inside the outside wall frame with stronger u beam metal studs - or 4x2 recycled framing - and proper bracing (a must)
The whole problem you are faced with is the cheap metal studs will not ever support a wall or ceiling structure that you will need to soundproof the space.

So it goes in roughly this order:

# Cut heavy insulation into every space between every stud/rafter in the whole garage including rafters.
Place 100mmx100mm neoprene squares or proper sound absorbing rubber squares at 300mm centers around the perimiter of the studio floorspace.(to hold the weight of the floor and walls)
600 mm centred squares in the middle of the room.

# place 2 layers of yellowtounge flooring on top of the rubber squares - not touching the existing walls.
the 2nd layer of yellowtounge is placed in the opposite way to the first (IE 90 deg).
Seal all joints in all layers - but not the outside edge.

# Now you have a floor to build your structure on.
The walls sit on your yellowtounge floor and consist of 2 layers of yellowtoung (again running opposite) and a layer of 13mm fire rated plasterboard on top.
The walls do not touch any of the existing structure ( this must be triple checked - it is the MOST important thing)

# Your new studio ceiling will now be built being supported by the new walls only - again cannot touch the existing ceiling joists or any part of the shed.
Again 2 layers of yellowtounge - and a layer of 13mm plasterboard.
In the end what is needed is a airtight dense box - all floating on rubber.
Every joint/corner in every layer needs to be meticulously sealed - otherwise your pissing your money and time up against a wall - it is the other MOST important thing to remember.

So its a big job - and I really suggest you get a chippie mate who can brace it all properly (safely) and make sure you are using the right support for the ceiling weight.

Rain will never be a problem if its done this way - as the roof is also insulated between the rafters and not touching the ceiling.
If you do it right then you will be able to work at all times of the day / night.
Have fun!

[ChrisW]

Yeah, I went ahead with official planning permission, and the main thing the council were concerned about was the structure holding up. They required a site visit from a structural engineer who suggested extra metal girder supports etc...
After I somewhat gave up on the room within a room wood building idea, I contacted a local eco builder and discussed a straw bale structure within the shed. He kind of suggested it was easier and cheaper to just build something separate to the shed. That plan is on pretty permanent postponement at the moment, but I did think the straw bale route was a good one. Cheap materials, you can sort of do it yourself, perhaps with a few days help/advice, and the insulation properties are superb.

[The Tasmanian]

I would do everything I could to not involve the council if it was me.
There are lots of ways to make it a successful room to work in.
There are light weight bricks too that can be layed (glued) around the inside for walls, green glue a layer of yellowtounge to the face of the block wall - with a few steel uprights to take the ceiling.
By keeping it as a existing garage - and not altering the outside or framing (no council), one can pick away from the inside over a period of time and get a fairly quiet sounding room.
Its a lot of labor - and not too much $ to get the materials.
Don't be put off by a garage - try building a real studio someday!

[NYMo]

Hi there,

After spending $20k on building my ex studio in a converted double garage, I learnt one major thing...

Condensor mics are very susceptible to noise from a roof (especially with the f^^kin rain up here !)
I don't know how many vocal sessions were stopped while we waited for the rain to stop.

Cheers
John NYMO Nyman

[Kurt]

Can't hear rain at all in my drummer's jam room. His garage has a peaked roof but the room has a flat ceiling, still using the mass-air-mass principle. The whole room is decoupled from the actual shed.

Hi there,

After spending $20k on building my ex studio in a converted double garage, I learnt one major thing...

Condensor mics are very susceptible to noise from a roof (especially with the f^^kin rain up here !)
I don't know how many vocal sessions were stopped while we waited for the rain to stop.

Cheers
John NYMO Nyman