Mics and drums for sale... Price drop!

[HA_DA_JA]

While we are talking drums. can some one explain the differences in the kick drum sizes and why 16 x 24 is considered older and not modern sounding?
Cheers

[Drumstruck]

my 2c... over the years you see drums sizes change - whether it's following or leading musical trends or just a marketing ploy to sell more drums I'm not sure....

In the early 1900s bass drums were large diameter and shallow depth (e.g. 28" x 12") as they used to be marching drums - as the kit evolved they got smaller in diameter to be more comfortable to play and mount other drums on. The extra depth came along to make the smaller diameter bass drums produce a deeper note.

In the 40s / 50s the smaller bass drums and shallower toms seemed more prominent, probably to suit the jazz scene
- in the 60s / 70s as drummers wanted more bling and commanded more focus (and competed with amplified music) the bass drums grew and toms got deeper and bigger sounding.
- there was a bit of a trend in the 90s / 00s to go to shallow toms and (strangely) very deep bass drums and I think this is where you're coming from regarding 16" deep bass drums being out of fashion

I see a trend over the last few years for larger diameter bass drums returning - possibly the renewed reverence for John Bonham is fueling this change.......

all imo and open to debate

[ChrisW]

i have done several sessions over the years with specifically loud kits and very light cymbals
what this acheived was room sounds that were WAY more kit then cymbals

I always advocate lighter (in weight), darker (in timbre) cymbals for recording.
In fact I've ended up going that way on the 'live' front too.
I try to set up behind the backline and try to have virtually no drum kit in my monitors, maybe a little bass drum. Then I balance my monitor needs (vocals, keys etc) against the acoustic sound of my kit on stage.
So my main cymbals are almost always K Zildjians (this is for all types of rock and pop).
The older A's can be superb, and are pretty cheap to pick up used. Zildjian started making the A's heavier in the late 60's to compensate for the louder amplification other band members were starting to use.
Other great cymbals for lower volume recording are Sabian HHX, Agop, Paiste 2002 and 602.
Drummers should be able to balance themselves. Bonham is a great example. I've heard Fatar is too.
I'm not saying I have it down, but when I talk to younger players I advise them to visualize 85% volume on bass drum, 75% on snare, 80% on toms and only 40% on hi-hat and crashes. You can go to 100% on bass drum, snare and toms at the end of songs, or the climaxes of solos.

[ChrisW]

Regarding sizes, if it sounds good it is good IMO.
I used to get producers requesting certain sizes, or looking doubtful if I set something up that wasn't 'standard'.
In those situations it's handy to be Steve Gadd.

In the 80's someone invented 'power' sizes, which encompassed longer bass drums. Most of my kit bass drums have 16" or 18" depth and are 22" or 24" diameter. I'd be as happy to use 14" depth, but that's more of a vintage kit thing.
I think one thing with bass drums that has changed over the years is that we (drummers) are competing with machines (and now samples). At the point the drum machine became popular, so did the huge in yer face bass drum.
I think it's in an effort to recreate the big, in yer face bass drum that drummers have turned to bigger diameters and longer drums.

Back on topic, I have no doubt Dan's Yammy kit is a killer.
If I needed another kit... it would be high on my shopping list.
This is going to be one mighty fine studio drum kit for someone.

[rick]

oh yes that drum kit ...
. is it still here?
i would have thought i would have made a good enough case for it by now and somebody would have snaffled it up
i must be losing my touch
somebody buy his kit can you so this thread has a reason to go a few more rounds to entertain me without me derailing it every 12 hours for amusement

[Junction]

Ok Rick, how about I buy the kit and hold it for you and then when you are ready I'll sell it to you for cost + 10%?

....oh damn, forgot I don't have any money, can anyone lend me $1300?

[rick]

I will take that deal from anybody that offers
Dan do you want to trade it for something old and heavy ?

[rick]

actually old and heavy in that price range probably isnt worth the effort to send to perth
what about cheap and nasty

[danander11]

If I sell the mics and for some unknown reason the kit doesn't sell, and I have to keep it, (sniff sniff), I'm sure I will be heartbroken..

[ChrisW]

Well I regret selling my RC's (in the mid-80's) and they are a very different sound to your DW's.
So........

[danander11]

Well I regret selling my RC's (in the mid-80's) and they are a very different sound to your DW's.
So........

I'm not the one that needs convincing. There's this half-chinese lady running around the house that can get as mad as a junkyard dog. My 5 yo and I have taken over most of the house now with our regular kits and gear, and over time the Yammies have found their way into her study... She said she's tired of tripping over them and when we move, (we're selling our Sydney house and buying here), they aint making the trip...

If I can find the right place though... I'm going to put a little studio out back, maybe I can fit some storage out there as well..

[Ausrock]

Dan, I'd seriously consider storage, "special" sounding drums are worth hanging on to.

Anyone looking to buy a kit should carefully research before forking out their hard earned dollars regardless of whether they're looking at new or s/hand..........timber type, shell thickness, bearing edge profile, etc., will all affect the sound, then added to the equation is type of heads and the player's individual style/characteristics.

If you're looking at Aust., "made", ask exactly where their shells come from , if looking at s/hand DW, determine whether they're Keller or DW made shells, consider the fact that excluding (post Keller) DW, virtually any "modern" US branded drum manufacturer is using Keller shells on their "better" quality kits, the "budget/mainstream" kits are likely to have Asian sourced shells.

Of course there's always the option of moving away from ply shells and looking at something like Le Soprano or Odery.

[Drumstruck]

Of course there's always the option of moving away from ply shells and looking at something like Le Soprano or Odery.

.... or acrylic - I have a friend who is starting up an acrylic drums co. here in Oz


..... or buy Dan's kit, retain the bottom mylar sklns / put mesh skins and triggers on the top - then you've got a-s or e-s just by inverting the drums (except the snare)

[Kurt]

I love acrylic kits, they sound confusingly woody!

[toddd]

can't believe the drummers have finally got their day(thread) on t'rock.. hah!

rick, maybe you could start a 'drum' section for the forum?

[danander11]

can't believe the drummers have finally got their day(thread) on t'rock.. hah!

rick, maybe you could start a 'drum' section for the forum?

Even if nothing sells I've had fun... I really need to sell the mics though. I'm getting ready to order a couple of Psidex EQP1's.. (drums too for that matter)

[Ausrock]

I cant say much but working in composites research has had me slowly developing a new method of making composite shells...........I have the luxury of varying things to match different timber characteristics, etc. What I don't have is the spare time to make prototyping jigs and moulds..........yet.

Anyways, I'm heading back into the lab for more test work.

[ChrisW]

Put DW's and Yammy's on the block.
Whichever one sells first, keep the other, financial and space problems solved!
Just kidding...... sorta.

[rick]

ok we have nearly hit three pages and nobody has bought those drums yet
that tells me three things

1) i am starting a recording drums forum - today
2) i need to apologize for repeatedly derailing a perfectly simple for sale thread
3) there are drummers that can read and type and are interesting to listen to !
who knew

[danander11]

It's all good Rick,

I actually have three people contacting me about them in the last day and a half.

Is there a mic thread someplace? lol

[danander11]

OK Gents,

I am flying off to Sydney Tuesday morning. Anyone interested in the drums will have to wait until a return to Perth a week later for me to process the deal.. Same for the mics..

However, on the mics, If you are in Sydney, and willing to meet either near the city or out near North Rocks, if you want to buy a mic(s), let's get the deal done prior to Tuesday and I'll carry them over myself. I'd have to know my Saturday night so I can go back online and add my carry-on as a bag so that I can hand-carry the mic(s).

Peace!