Drum fill

by **Mark Bassett** » Sun Oct 01, 2006 6:26 pm

Do you think he can hear the band?

Counting the days...

by **Martin** » Sun Oct 01, 2006 6:53 pm

doesn't look like he needs one....

by **Simon B** » Sun Oct 01, 2006 7:00 pm

Tool is the best band I have seen live..... twice the new album took a while to grow on me now I cant wait to see the new stuff live

I did security for a perfect circle a few years ago, Maynard lives up to the bands name........ TOOL... but got damn he puts on a good performance.

There is something special about a live show where the singer isnt the focal point

by **jkhuri44** » Sun Oct 01, 2006 8:50 pm

hey dudes...

while we're on danny carey...im sure this question has been asked to death....

but do you know of any links which discuss in detail the recording of Lateralus (especially the drums)...ie. pre's/mics/compressors.

i love that albums drum sound....its not "big heavy PHAAAT"....and thats what's amazing about it...

any articles would be great!

by **Peter Knight** » Mon Oct 02, 2006 12:37 pm

I remember an article on PSW about the recording of that album, but I'm buggered if I can find it now.

Do any other Tool fans out there find that they can't listen to Lateralus now that the new album's out? I've barely taken 10,000 Days out of the car stereo since I got it.

by **Peter Knight** » Mon Oct 02, 2006 12:44 pm

http://www.prosoundweb.com/recording/ta ... il_1.shtml

Found it.

[edit] Whoops, looks like it's about Aenima instead.

by **Mark Bassett** » Mon Oct 02, 2006 3:48 pm

by **jkhuri44** » Mon Oct 02, 2006 10:50 pm

i dunno about 10,000 days...

when i heard it....i thought Baressi kinda butchered tool's style (Mark's article that i read said "undertow on steroids" :( )...it sounded too "phat" and "chunky"...where as i thought tool was better represented by a more intricate/cleaner/tonal sound...

not to mention the inferior songwriting on 10,000 days....

maybe im the only dyer/dier tool fan that hates 10,000 days...if so....preach to me...i WANT to like this album, i just cant...

PS. Aenima has been in my car stereo for 10 years..and i have not taken it out..thats how much i love it....

thats where im coming from!!

by **jkhuri44** » Mon Oct 02, 2006 10:56 pm

let me correct myself...

maynard's overtly irritating perfect circle "style" which he just happened to bring to Tool again...gives me the royal s**ts, and is why i cant enjoy tool's latest offering...

and when i said mark's article , i meant the one he linked us to in another forum heading

Jamil.

by **Peter Knight** » Tue Oct 03, 2006 12:14 am

How many listens have you given it? I had to go through quite a few before I "got it".

Jambi is incredible IMHO - and doesn't remotely resemble traditional rock song structure. I also didn't like Rosetta Stoned much, but now I love it.

Did you get tickets Mark?

by **Kris** » Tue Oct 03, 2006 10:43 am

I'm not really a fan of tool... but tool fans *might* like a band called Dredg.

I have their El Cielo cd in stereo and 5.1 and it's amazing.

by **Mark Bassett** » Tue Oct 03, 2006 4:46 pm

Tickets I did get, dance floor.

It took me a while to sink into the album. IMHO the two tracks 10,00days and wings for marie together mark a new high point in tool's catalogue. The story behind 10,000 days by itself is intense, listeneing to those tracks, actually hearing his mum pass on, and above all the 'give me my wings' line - I can't understand why anyone would think this record in lyrically inferior, but each to theirs i guess.

I think it's their most literal album - lyrically speakng. They've clearly given up on hoping people will 'think for themselves' and 'question authority' which they clearly haven't. It's certainly a more straight foward 'here it is' kind of record. They're opening their tours with Rosetta Stoned these days.

Right in two is probably my favourite track, sums up well my feelings about the human race right now. Monkeys killing monkeys over pieces of the ground. Couldn't have put it any better.

Sound wise I do like the sound of 10,000 days, that is, i like the sound of their earlier records, but i do favour the sound of lateralus, preceise, clean, I think it brings out their playing more. Gotta love the voicebox on jambi though.

Oh, and here's where i tell you i like a perfect circle more than tool. Possibly the only person ever to admit that.

One of my students was telling me that they recorded in a helium filled room, drums i think, to raise the pitch. Anyone heard of this? Any info?

Mark

by **Peter Knight** » Tue Oct 03, 2006 7:37 pm

Mark Bassett wrote:One of my students was telling me that they recorded in a helium filled room, drums i think, to raise the pitch. Anyone heard of this? Any info?

Yeah I read that in my brother's copy of Modern Drummer... Danny said they did it because it improved the sound of the high end.

I think he may have been joking again, as usual.

Enjoy your tix BTW Mark! Looks like its the Big Day Out for everyone bar Sydney and Melbourne.

by **Simon B** » Tue Oct 03, 2006 8:13 pm

I think lateralis as almost a sonicly perfect album, and then anema, is second.

I think that is David Botrill's contribution because the Silverchair album he did is the same.

the guitar sounds joe baressi gets is huge, I read the audio tech article he did and he owns 120 amps or something. I chucked 10,000 days into mono and the guitars disapeared. for me there are some songs where the toms dont make the drums sound like one instrument if you know what I mean....

10 000 days though is still a very dynamic album, it seems they didnt care about louder = better

I was really concerned about joe barressi taking an edge away from what I like about lateralis and anema, but it has started to grow on me

Mark I like a perfect circle bettter then tool as well, the first time I heard the 13th step blew me away.......

aparently mynard is doing another side project.... pusifer

I havent read anything about this tour, but I cannnot wait to see what is on screen...... unless they have 2 hours at the big day out I would be disapointed because you miss all the back ground graphics

by **Mark Bassett** » Tue Oct 03, 2006 9:59 pm

They will, of course, announce a second sydney show.

by **jkhuri44** » Wed Oct 04, 2006 2:41 am

re what you were saying about Helium air and drum recording....

there is a little tid bit of knowledge i squeezed out of an acoustics textbook about "air temperature"....and the character of sound travelling in "air"....

OR,

since helium is lighter than air....it may influence how sound waves interact with the air around it....possibly increases sonic accuracy by preserving the stereo imaging from the point the sound is made to the time it travels to the microphone....

and i assume ....if your engineering tool, you will have the best kit, recording into the best mics, in the best room, onto tape....transfered to 24BIT protools for editing through the best AD conv's...why not throw in some helium to sweeten up the sound!! hahahaha (Botrills running out of things to try here :P )

beware...the above post may be full of audiophilia wank.. feel free to correct me...! :P

by **Kris** » Wed Oct 04, 2006 9:14 am

Given the effects helium has on people ( ie, light headedness etc) I would wonder whether or not it was actually possible to do it. Imagine replacing the air content with helium in a room that large, and sustaining it, not to mention making sure the drummer didn't pass out. Drumming is hard physical work. Can you imagine doing it for any length of time without O2?

Sounds like an urban myth to me.

by **chris p** » Wed Oct 04, 2006 9:22 am

Did the drummer wear scuba gear? As JK said, helium is lighter than air, so you'd actually be filling the room from the ceiling down. By the time you've got enough at the drum level to affect the sound, at sitting down head level there's not much oxy left, your drummer sounds like a duck and has turned blue.

Might cut down the predelay of the room reverb a bit, and make a good kit sound tinny. That's about it.

by **Mark Bassett** » Wed Oct 04, 2006 2:36 pm

Yeah I'm going with urban myth, or complete lie. Similar deal with inhaling nitrous oxide (which of course i've never done and don't recommend). Lots of reports of people actually dieing in their vans from that stuff, you've got to roll the windows down kids.

I digress..

Well tool's certainly a band that gets tied to all sorts of crazy stories. Don't get me started on fibonacci, crowly, leary or area 51.

But there are plenty of serious ones. One that interested me a few years back was the idea of tuning the kit to the key of the song. I've certainly witnessed engineers tune and record all the songs in a certain key, then retune the kit and record other songs. I'm not a drummer though, surely this has its limits - can you accurately and safely tune a drum to any note? I think maybe not. Drummers?

by **jkhuri44** » Wed Oct 04, 2006 3:35 pm

not a drummer,

but i do watch a lot of session drumming DVD's with a drummer friend of mine.

A very interesting technique is done by Billy Ward..

he treats his Toms and Snares similarly...and because of that, also tunes the snare drum and includes it in with the toms....

this means that....for example if a song is in D...
drummer uses DFACE and so on, to form a chord.
you tune the drums so that you match each tom and snare with its closest note in the triad.

it usually goes something like small rack tom taking the highest note, then the next rack tom, then the snare, then any floor toms...

Also with tuning the snare Ward says that "drummers tune too tightly, you need to let the snare breathe a bit".

As for tuning for songs, tool tend to be able to do it relatively easily because most songs are in Drop D...bar a few songs...so maybe 1 or 2 changes max...Musicians with more complex songs probably cant be assed tuning for every song....

i think also, a lot of this depends on your kit, and skins...but basically you would tune with a drum tuning fork (or something similar, not sure what it is)....or simply play a clean note on a keyboard and match to that as closely as possible. The key would be to match each tom to its closest note, rather than stretch a tom beyond what is natural...tuning the snare with the snare off takes up a good middle note therefore making note assignments to other toms much easier, and also allows the drummer to do much more natural sounding fills including the snares in the rolls.

As for the sound...i would say, you would find mixing with tuned toms fairly nice...as they start acting more like "timpanis"...and you can play them in melodic ways...ie. Danny Carey tunes his toms probably from his orchestral background. You can hear in lateralus that sometimes some tom fills are fairly distant, that might be a play on the mind, since the toms gel more with the music, they dont stick out as much.

by **Chris H** » Wed Oct 04, 2006 5:30 pm

Mark Bassett wrote:Yeah I'm going with urban myth, or complete lie. Similar deal with inhaling nitrous oxide (which of course i've never done and don't recommend). Lots of reports of people actually dieing in their vans from that stuff, you've got to roll the windows down kids.

I digress..

Well tool's certainly a band that gets tied to all sorts of crazy stories. Don't get me started on fibonacci, crowly, leary or area 51.

But there are plenty of serious ones. One that interested me a few years back was the idea of tuning the kit to the key of the song. I've certainly witnessed engineers tune and record all the songs in a certain key, then retune the kit and record other songs. I'm not a drummer though, surely this has its limits - can you accurately and safely tune a drum to any note? I think maybe not. Drummers?

Not safely to any note, once you get to a certain pitch the skin breaks!!!
Sereously though.......you can accuratley tune drums to notes.

LRB drummer Derriek Pellici used to tune his drums using a Peterson Strobe Tuner for his live gigs. I still have one from my guitar repairing days. They were standard issue back then. Works better than those stupid flashing LED tuners for tuning drums.

by **Kris** » Wed Oct 04, 2006 5:43 pm

Tuning drums to the key of the song? Absolutely. I do it all the time....or my drum tech does. I once mixed a band live called Syzegy (Perth band) many years ago and they played a lot of stuff in drop d tuning. Their drummer (from memory) tuned his Kick to D and three toms to D-A-D. Best mix I ever pulled was with those guys. Mind you, they were stellar musician's and there were no vocals to get in the way!

But yeah, iwhen time permits, I either tune it so the snare cracks over the top of the guitars or tune it down so it sits under the guitars. Nothing worse than a resonant tone that is at odds with the rest of the band.

by **Peter Knight** » Fri Oct 20, 2006 11:31 pm

http://www.bigdayout.com/theshow/sideshows.php

SYDNEY l Wednesday 24 January l Sydney Entertainment Centre

MELBOURNE l Wednesday 31 January l Myer Music Bowl

SOLD OUT!!!!

However be alert not alarmed, we

by **Mark Bassett** » Sat Oct 21, 2006 11:27 am

I'm heading to the syd show (sideshow that is), they have confirmed BDO finally but i'm not going, and I'm also going down to melb to see them. Think i scored a muse tix also, not sure yet. Anyone going to see the mars volta? Any fans on the board?

by **jkhuri44** » Sat Oct 21, 2006 9:47 pm

i went to see the volta last time at the Enmore....

fanfriggintastic show!!!

they have a dude in the corner of the stage reserved as "effects bitch" from what i could see ...i think he switches everyone...funny to see!

not sure if i can afford any more tickets...

i bought tool and G3 tickets...and cant justify anymore!

hahahaha

by **Simon B** » Sun Oct 22, 2006 2:31 am

I saw the mars volta in febuary...... They Really awesome
havent heard the new album yet, be interesting I think... a band member taking on the role of music director and getting john fruscainte from the red hot chili peppers to take the role of guitar

I love the fact that fruscainte and the mars volta collaborate alot, it really is about the music, they blow me away..... Its been a while since I have heard stuff that is about an expression of art.... tool are an expression of art as well....

Omar plays on alot of fruscainte's solo stuff

I have tickets to the mars volta and G3, the thing is they are on the same night.

I have seen vai, wasnt really something that blew me away.... satriani well he is the man, but it wasnt that long ago and now I would like to see petrucci but I am not phased.......

Not seeing malmsteen, dont really want to.

Muse....... well matt bellamy blows me away, has he and tom morrello done anything together..... imagine the freaky stuff that would happen with them together.

Mark when you are in melb It would be nice to have a drink with ya if you have a chance

by **Simon B** » Sat Nov 04, 2006 9:05 am

http://www.prosoundweb.com/recording/ta ... il_1.shtml

An article about david bottrill from tape op. talks about running a pa behind danny to give the drums extra feel

by **Simon B** » Mon Jan 29, 2007 11:55 pm

Due to people not paying me when they were meant to, I sold my ticket....... and I sold it for $100, which is what I paid for it.... its feels like being kicked square in the nuts repeatedly.

hope everygoing to the melb show has an awesome nite...... and congrads to everyone who saw them at the big day out, I hear they were awesome as always......

by **Peter Knight** » Mon Feb 05, 2007 4:59 pm

Damn! How good was that?!

Swing on the spiral....

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