Live Forum

[Lucas]

I asked Rick recently if he would be interested in a live forum here at Turtlerock. Seems as if I was the first to ask.

Thought I might start this thread to see who else might be interested.

I love the culture here at Turtlerock and would love to see content relevant to my work.

Being catagorized as a "weekend warrior" or "backyarder" by many other forums, I often find the culture condesending. I have education in Audio and have worked proffessionaly in a studio but have had to look to other industries due to my geographic location. Building a quality live business has to be a secondary job so that I can feed the kids and pay the mortgage! It wont be like that forever though.....

Anywho... Anyone else interested?

edit:

I don't know if interest would result in said forum, just thought I'd ask.

[walding]

I do a lot of live sound, so a +1 here.....

[Kurt]

I'm a bit confused.. A Q&A type forum or another sub-forum focussed on live sound on teh internets?

[rick]

nah a seperate live sound forum is the question

nobody has ever asked and frankly its actual a bit outside my comfort zone of expertise or interest to generate one and just because we dont have one isnt the reason to make it
do we need it ? will it be active , what are the other locals options we would be stomping on ? (this is important the turtlerock forum is obviously filling voids not competing on others turf )

so i guess a bit like the keyboard section if somebody approaches me ( like thirteen did ) with a rep strong enough to be the moderator and a strong feeling it will be an active local community who just need an anchor point .. and it will have cross over interest .. sure i will host the space no worries

live sound its just not my world so i have no idea
so i guess lets leave it to sort itself out .. and you tell me

[stosostu]

I do quite a bit of live sound, recently did the Silk Degrees Show at the Adelaide Festival Fringe and the SA High Schools Rock Eisteddfod, so I'd be interested in a Live Forum.

I am, though, attempting to build a studio so that I can encompass both live and dead??? (what is the opposite of live sound) sound.............

[Lucas]

I don't know of a local live forum, all of the active ones are US based me thinks.

Most of the discusion on those forums is focused on system optimisation as apposed to mixing technique. While I understand the neccesity for "enough rig for the gig" and working hard to get even coverage, I also want to have conversations regarding the creative elements of the mixing experience.

Techniques like parralel compression have done wonders for vox in my mixes, convincing my of the benifits of advanced mixing techniques regardless of the system.

[mylesgm]

considering how poor the sound is at many gigs I go to I think it'd be great to have a place to disseminate knowledge and encourage quality and volume approaches to live sound especially at small venue gigs. Now would the bands mate who is mixing the gig read, learn and contribute? who knows...

[Alistair]

considering how poor the sound is at many gigs I go to I think it'd be great to have a place to disseminate knowledge and encourage quality and volume approaches to live sound especially at small venue gigs. Now would the bands mate who is mixing the gig read, learn and contribute? who knows...

+1

The forum might start with me asking a few questions though...
Mostly "you really think that sounds good?"

Nothing more depressing than seeing a great band almost ruined by poor sound.

[rick]

as a rule ( with exceptions) the live guys i know are working a different beat to the studio guys i know in every way
different concerns different needs different headspaces different timeframes

the great live guys i know are the exceptions and few and far between and often remarkably talented in many areas
find me a local one of those guys to mod the forum and give it some authority and grounding
( of coarse the best "guy" Bruce Jackson has passed on recently ) but he was a reader / lurker of the forum !

maybe lets not post up would be names as it would look poor for me to publically say no
but if you have ideas let me know

the more i think about it the more i think we should just stay with what we are good at
and maybe encourage more live sound talk amonst those already on board ?
thats how the recent recording drums forum started .. a runaway thread in the main forum
and i made chris whitten an offer he couldnt understand before he was able to change his mind
of coarse he had been on the main forum for years

maybe there is a lurking live sound king under the curtains at the back of the room ...?
speaketh up if it is you !
we are listening

[NathS101]

I think it's a great idea
nath

[ChrisW]

Any good live sound tech is too busy on the road to be writing posts on a forum.
Good recording engineers have much more free time...... waiting for the guitarist to get their solo right, or for the drummer to programme their drum part into BFD so it sounds consistent and in time.

[stosostu]

considering how poor the sound is at many gigs

Myles, without wanting to defend poor live mixing, there are way too many venues out there that defy getting anything like a good live sound, I would love to do all my live mixing in a purpose built room with carefully tuned and place absorbers and difractors, with live areas and dead areas to be used as I wished, and a seperate drum room so that the drums didn't leak into every live mic on the stage and thus into all the foldback mixes so the singers can't hear themselves....................

I guess that's one of the reason I trying to build a studio, but the live stuff pays the bills. You should also remember that as well as the good shows like the ones I mentioned above, I, and lots of small time sound guys like me also get to do the sound for the local carols in the park, the local RSL on 11/11, school music nights, and grotty pubs. All I can say is that its a good job I enjoy it.

[rick]

I went to my sons first school performance this afternoon and his kindy teacher was tweaking the beringer graphic eqs in the school pa while the performance was going on '
dunno why but he looked intently like he was serious about whatever he thought he was doing

now i know the kindy teacher is into sound
i wonder wether i should tell him i have a passing interest in the subject as well ..?

or maybe its just better to stay as the only father that picks up and drops off a kindy kid
and also the one parent doesnt give the kindy teacher a hard time like
all the nutso school mums do .. ?

dont worry...

i just answered my own question

mums the word

[Ausrock]

With all respect to those who deserve it............where live sound is concerned, a little "knowledge" is a dangerous thang............I've been there many years ago, been embarrassed by my stuff ups and ultimately learnt a lot from some talented guys.

Somehow, I just don't see a specific "live" forum being needed.............wanted maybe, but needed.........

[Gian]

Speaking about a little knowledge...I adjusted the input gain on the head amp of the mixer at our church for the bass coz we couldn't hear it in our in ears mix and the fader was nearly all the way up...well the next week at our rehearsal (I play elec guitar normally) I got berated by one if the mixer guys who said that because of that all the microphones were feeding back. I tried not to be rude but I suggested that if a mic fed back he should either turn it down at FOH or dip the offending frequency. He looked confused, so then I tried to explain good gain staginging, which can take some time especially if they don't believe you and then I got in trouble by the band leader for talking instead of playing guitar - I felt like I couldn't win.

[rick]

give the people what they want .. not want they need
thats the only way stay in power !



dunno who said that but it sounds true enough

[mylesgm]

considering how poor the sound is at many gigs

there are way too many venues out there that defy getting anything like a good live sound

I can absolutely agree with this and to be honest I hate doing live sound for this very reason. There's little time to soundcheck, often the gear is unbelievably shite and unreliable, the room sounds terrible to start with and everybody in the room is looking at you thinking you must be deaf because they could do a better job.

Part of the problem though are the engineers who put up with this environment, who dont bring their own gear, who dont demand a better standard of equipment, proper time for a soundcheck and yet many small venues pay the engineer and the band only gets a door deal.

All in all it's a terrible situation.

[ChrisW]

I agree, that in these tough economic times, the gear to work with is going to be basic, and the spaces are no doubt challenging too.
One huge component of live sound is the sound onstage. I gotta say, musicians are often their own worst enemy when it comes to achieving a great sounding mix thru the PA.

[Ben M]

One huge component of live sound is the sound onstage. I gotta say, musicians are often their own worst enemy when it comes to achieving a great sounding mix thru the PA.

That's spot on Chris.
Well balanced on-stage sound levels plus well tuned foldback are the best starting point for a successful live show regardless of the pa and room.
Also, I always find when bands are presented with a bigger stage to play on they tend to spread out away from each other and then in turn have to crank their levels to match the distance between them (along with the struggling FB mix). Musicians should keep their distances the same as rehearsal and try and bunch in together as much as possible. It's a much better vibe and guitar (everything really) levels don't need to be as loud. In smaller to medium venues this makes all the difference to a successful FOH mix.

On the question of live sound sub forum...I'm in favour of it...but... I'd probably prefer to see a Mastering sub forum as priority. Anyone else feel this?

[rick]

there wont be mastering forum

[musikwerks]

I learned to mix in stinky old pubs and not so stinky churches.

Keep church sound out of it and you might have a winner. Every man and his dog has an opinion about church sound. It's highly contentious. Always has been. At least at the rock show you can tell someone to p!ss off if they complain about the volume. At church I used to just look at them and say "What? Sorry, I can't hear you! The band is really loud!"

[jkhuri44]

when audio companies work out a way to make microphones, sound damping, mixers and so on sell more alcohol, managers and bar owners might start caring about live sound.