Pro Tools 10

[Text_Edifice]

I've got news for you... Pro Tools has always been targeted at the post production area... That's where the money is. They were in post facilities, radio and TV stations long before they became the default system in music studios.

Good point - am showing my age here as I'm too young to remember a time without omnipresent HD / LE systems. And of course post is where the money is for PT and HDX.

It's particularly interesting then that PT makes far more intuitive sense to me (and others, as stated) than Logic / Cubase / etc. for working with audio (as opposed to MIDI).

[ChrisW]

Here’s how it works… a composer buys Protools and starts to get post work... other composers think "I want a piece of that action" and so they invest in a Protools setup. As new studio opens up, and make decisions on which system to go with, the compatibility word enters the equation… they want to be compatible with other facilities, everyone else is running Protools, we don’t want to miss out on any work because we’re not compatible… pretty soon everyone’s using Protools. It's a self perpetuating business model.

That may be happening here, but no one I know has gone 'post' in the UK.
The compatibility issue is real, but that's because composers are working at home, then overdubbing in a commercial studio, orchestral elements usually. Then delivering to a film editor working on an Avid system, or delivering to a sound mixer using Pro Tools.
There is no 'piece of the action', it's just damn easier to take your Pro Tools session all over London (say) and open it at a guitarists house, or another composer you're collaborating with, and not have to jump through formatting hoops when the day of delivery comes.
That's why I went Pro Tools.

[danander11]

PT 10 is already config'ed for AAX plugs right?

PT10HD will use RTAS, TDM and AAX

PT11 and on will be AAX only.. at least that's what they're saying for now.

[audioio]

So makes sense that people will start dumping RTAS and TDM Plugs.
I'm going to keep mine in the hope of free or low cost exchange to AAX.

Well, maybe. It would be nice to think that if you had something like, say, a Waves TDM bundle, your Update Plan would just include the AAX when they were released.

I supposed that's when we'll find out whether people feel the same about Waves as about Avid.

[danander11]

So makes sense that people will start dumping RTAS and TDM Plugs.
I'm going to keep mine in the hope of free or low cost exchange to AAX.

Well, maybe. It would be nice to think that if you had something like, say, a Waves TDM bundle, your Update Plan would just include the AAX when they were released.

I supposed that's when we'll find out whether people feel the same about Waves as about Avid.

There are a lot of folks that are going to update current plugs for free.. and a few that aren't. Waves appears to be sitting a fence on this so far.. I have the Merc bundle so should get it for free.. but I've also got a funny feeling that that won't apply this time. McDSP and others have all announced they will go it though. Waves will likely come to the party in time for the release of 11... but as time goes by I use fewer and fewer of their plugs.. there are a couple however that I use often.. Maybe I'll buy the couple and sell the bundle. I dunno.. I swallowed that cost a long time ago so I guess I can just let it sit.. you never know when something just might work.

My curiosity is whether or not the AAX format will be any better than RTAS or TDM in the way it uses resources.. No one will say anything definitive yet.. Time will tell I suppose.

Me, I think I'll get 10 next week and call it a day on the upgrading thing.. 192's should be dropping in price I'll pick up a couple and just muddle on.. They were good enough last week. I'll still be able to use all of my plugs whether the developer updates or not.. I like the thought of that.

[The Tasmanian]

So - can a PT10 session be saved into a PT9 or PT8 format?
Is anyone running 10 yet?

[Sammas]

So - can a PT10 session be saved into a PT9 or PT8 format?
Is anyone running 10 yet?

Not running PT10, but according to sweetwater you can... it is in the FAQ part. Just click "save as" and choose a legacy format.

http://www.sweetwater.com/feature/protools10/

[danander11]

So - can a PT10 session be saved into a PT9 or PT8 format?
Is anyone running 10 yet?

Not running PT10, but according to sweetwater you can... it is in the FAQ part. Just click "save as" and choose a legacy format.

http://www.sweetwater.com/feature/protools10/

PT10 can open older PTF files.. it will save to PTX files now by default, however, you can save to V8 or 9 PTF... WHen it does that it renders the fades to files as it always has.. When you open and older PTF file, it will change the fade files to the new real-time fade format.. There are a few of the newer features in 10 that will not save backwards however.. I'm dipped if I can recall what they are off of the top of my head though.. I'll have my native card mon or tue and v10 not long after that.. If Avid is still in business that is..

Their stock is in the loo this morning and looking bleak.

[mylesgm]

um... who actually buys stock in avid?

[Ben M]

So - can a PT10 session be saved into a PT9 or PT8 format?
Is anyone running 10 yet?

"save copy in" under the file menu. Then select file type and PT version.

[Sammas]

I don't know if you HD users know... but if you buy the "AVID SUPPORT PLAN" for 12 months @ $550US (no idea what it costs locally), you get a free upgrade to PT HD10 and free upgrades, and free maintenance and support for the 12month period

Not a bad deal at all.

[Ben M]

Should be $599 US for all I thought. Gives you the PTHD10 download and 12 months support from avid (Ha!...whatever "support" means).

[PeteB]

I don't know if you HD users know... but if you buy the "AVID SUPPORT PLAN" for 12 months @ $550US (no idea what it costs locally), you get a free upgrade to PT HD10 and free upgrades, and free maintenance and support for the 12month period

$550 US doesn't seem free to me. That's a lot of money.
I know what you're saying but I reckon this is a great example of the "slides and roundabouts" used to get money out of people.

[The Tasmanian]

Support?

[jkhuri44]

ahahaha, "$559...includes free support"....
amazing how dumb this shit gets.

[The Tasmanian]

They'll try any crap marketing angle for the suckers
they are the ones that need the support.

[mylesgm]

on the other hand, the upgrade to PT10 is 1000 so 550 for the upgrade and 'support' is actually cheaper than simply buying the upgrade.... either thats a great deal or they actually pay you for them to provide support.

[Sammas]

I don't know if you HD users know... but if you buy the "AVID SUPPORT PLAN" for 12 months @ $550US (no idea what it costs locally), you get a free upgrade to PT HD10 and free upgrades, and free maintenance and support for the 12month period

$550 US doesn't seem free to me. That's a lot of money.
I know what you're saying but I reckon this is a great example of the "slides and roundabouts" used to get money out of people.

You can always attempt to part with $550 in 2012 and see what you get... (Just a support plan, and nothing more).

I've merely suggested a way you can save yourself a bundle of dough if you are considering PT10...

I'm pretty sure Rick is building a sandpit out the back for the 40 come 4 year old PT users on the forum. Enough with the Avid bashing, it is getting quite old... If you really want to make a statement and impress the world, grow a pair and sell your protools rigs once and for all...

...but you CAN'T CAN YOU?!? You all are like a bunch of crack heads... waiting for a cheap and nasty protools fix... scratching and twitching... craving... "maybe if I whinge and bitch about it they will lower the price"... maybe I should just quit... but protools... oh protools... coursing through my veins! Need... A... Fix... so... bad...

...maybe ...if ...I ...complain ...about ...it ...so ...much ...I ...will ...convince ...myself ...I ...don't ...need ...it.

...but ...I ...need ...it.

[The Tasmanian]

Nathan - sounds like you should work for Avid
How much money have you given the company?
Ive given them enough to buy many new cars - or a half a house, or even have some superannuation, or the odd holiday
And you are generically giving out advice to keep handing them more?
I have every right to bash their business model.

[danander11]

One last note about that Support Contract.. Apparently their VP of sales and service (or some such rubbish) is quoted on GS today as saying it's a one-off deal.. completely contradicting what Max G was saying..

I guess my advice is, if you're going to do it. get it in writing.. not that it will help. They really seem to have lost the plot..

Anyone here use Sequoia? I don't hear anything at all about it so I'm curious.

Ta...

[The Tasmanian]

The support contract is a scam to keep you on board- they know they are pissing people off as they try to get some income in the door for their failing business model- Ive never known any pro that uses PTools to ever need to speak to a support person - we go to avid q&a online/forums like this and others. Its a bullshit contract.
How many of us have needed a support person up until now?

[Ben M]

The support contract is a scam to keep you on board- they know they are pissing people off as they try to get some income in the door for their failing business model- Ive never known any pro that uses PTools to ever need to speak to a support person - we go to avid q&a online/forums like this and others. Its a bullshit contract.
How many of us have needed a support person up until now?

15 years using PT and never had to ring "support".

[ChrisW]

I'm pretty sure Rick is building a sandpit out the back for the 40 come 4 year old PT users on the forum. Enough with the Avid bashing, it is getting quite old... If you really want to make a statement and impress the world, grow a pair and sell your protools rigs once and for all...

...but you CAN'T CAN YOU?!?

Funny.
No I can't sell it, because it's worth $2.50. It's gathering dust in my shed.

I think 'Avid bashing' when it's on an audio forum and is debated by actual Pro Tools owners and users is perfectly valid.
Apart from the odd outburst, for the most part the debate has covered the pros and cons of this latest development in the PT evolution.
If you can't handle that, you must be one sensitive dude.

But as for 'growing a pair', I now use Logic with a Lynx Aurora for my professional audio needs.

[ChrisW]

15 years using PT and never had to ring "support".

Well the goal for any professional musician or studio is to run a solid rig, with no regular issues.
I probably used PT for about 8 years, and went through a hardware upgrade as well as a couple of software upgrades. I found the real need for support was in the period of upgrade. So I might have issues with a configuration, or part of the product might stop working how it should. Every time it was the retailer i turned to.
They are the people getting phone calls all day from other people experiencing the same problems. they are also the people who know you, know you aren't a newbie, and often know your rig from memory.
I never called Avid support once, I always called my computer audio guy at the retailer.
He'd often just fixed the same issue with another customer, or had the gizmo you needed in stock to sort the issue and get you working again.

[Sammas]

Nathan - sounds like you should work for Avid
How much money have you given the company?
Ive given them enough to buy many new cars - or a half a house, or even have some superannuation, or the odd holiday
And you are generically giving out advice to keep handing them more?
I have every right to bash their business model.

Oh dear, Chris. I should work for avid because I exhibit rational consumer behaviour? I don't think so. Avid hasn't recieved any money off me since 2006... I still use protools, but it isn't like they hold a gun to your head and threaten you if you don't give them money. But hey... maybe it is just me. I don't use the latest phone, my old one still works fine. I don't drive the latest car, my current one still has many, many kilometers left in her.

I'm not generically giving out advice for anyone to part with money. I am merely indicating that the avid business model is easily avoidable... as it always has been, and always will be... and I'll simply add that your posts to me read less as "avid bashing" and more disappointment in your own consumer behaviour. You have had a choice. You have always had a choice. It would be much more rational to rant about something out of your control... like paying tax... up to 49% of it.

[ChrisW]

I think if you are running a commercial business, the potential customers expect you to be up to date.
Fine if you know your market, but if I had recorded at home using AAX plug-ins and wanted to mix at a commercial facility and found their system wasn't compatible, then my booking ain't going to happen.
The other problem is all the variables......
Apple moves from OS to OSX and Intel powered machines, from G4 to MacPro.
No more Scsii connectors.
Film editors switch to the latest media files, and to be compatible you need to upgrade your mac, which means you need to change your PT system.
No, you don't have a gun to your head, but with the endless cycle of obsolescence engaged in by the computer companies, the audio software companies and the connectivity (scsii, firewire, thunderbolt) you can lose clients by not keeping pace.
Also, as time goes by the routes to upgrade to contemporary standards are more and more expensive.
Try upgrading from PT Mix to PT10.

[The Tasmanian]

As far as compatibility goes - in all the years I ran a mix studio - never did I lose a job because of not having the absolute latest version of PTools software - and I mixed many an album done on Logic and cubase - with the client rendering files for me with/without FX.

[audioio]

No, you don't have a gun to your head, but with the endless cycle of obsolescence engaged in by the computer companies, the audio software companies and the connectivity (scsii, firewire, thunderbolt) you can lose clients by not keeping pace.

To be fair, it's not Avid that has brought these changes (and I don't think you were suggesting they were either). SCSI used to be the only reliable way of passing a lot of data to and from a drive. Other technologies caught up and made it possible to do the same or similar things for less money. And most computer manufacturers, now essentially consumer electronics companies, aren't going to keep older, less used, more expensive features because a few professionals on the margins make a fuss.

If newer computers change, Avid has to change its products too... if only just to connect with the freaking things!

I know sound production is the main thing for us, but we are a tiny minority.

[Ben M]

If newer computers change, Avid has to change its products too... if only just to connect with the freaking things!

Why don't Avid just build their own 'puter? You know the "all in one" device I keep crapping on about? Avid will always be forced to design their systems around other companies systems (exceptions on a couple of things) unless they enhance the full potential of their workforce ie. the great processing minds that build/design their cards, interfaces and software.

ps. My home music 'puter is separate to my everything else 'puter. Studio 'puter is not networked. My music 'puter's are standalone.

pps. I won't be the one buying it cause I'm very happy with what I have now.

ppps. I will probably wait to upgrade to PT14 in the next 12 months. Kidding!

[danander11]

Why don't Avid just build their own 'puter? You know the "all in one" device I keep crapping on about? Avid will always be forced to design their systems around other companies systems (exceptions on a couple of things) unless they enhance the full potential of their workforce ie. the great processing minds that build/design their cards, interfaces and software.

ps. My home music 'puter is separate to my everything else 'puter. Studio 'puter is not networked. My music 'puter's are standalone.

pps. I won't be the one buying it cause I'm very happy with my what I have now.

ppps. I will probably wait to upgrade to PT14 in the next 12 months. Kidding!

No one would be able to afford what they would charge for it...

As far as waiting to upgrade, Avid is now showing that the longer you wait, the more they will charge you.. PT7HD to PT10HD (software only) is something on the order of $2500.. for a dead-end platform.