mac do it again! and again!

[PeterR]

18i/o max for that m-audio doozit with PTMP, which is still heaps but its not 32. If you use anything other than PT then the full 32 is available. Crippled again. The pain, the pain.

I dont understand how people who hate digi can love apple. They are exactly the same type of company. Digi is sooo bad bla bla but I love apple and logic sooo much.......just doesnt seem.....logical....to me.

[davemc]

I should have mentioned this before.

For ppl like me who have 50 odd songs on PTLE and now M-Powered PT there is a new adat interface, 32 inputs and 36 outs. With say, an Aurora 8 and a UAD1 card, you can sorta get a hybrid HD System for very very cheap.

http://www.m-audio.com/products/en_us/P ... -main.html

Pity LE software is still crippled to use only 18 in and out... Maybe it will change, although it would eat into HD sales. Same as PDC they have not added it so you cannot use third party stuff as easy.

I prefer Pro Tools and ilwl stay on it, you just have to understand that Digi goes out of it way to cripple LE and not get too pissed with it he he he.

[jkhuri44]

I dont understand how people who hate digi can love apple. They are exactly the same type of company. Digi is sooo bad bla bla but I love apple and logic sooo much.......just doesnt seem.....logical....to me.

never trust a company that sells you a computer with a 1 button fisher price mouse... :lol:

[smash]

Call me a cynic, but I don't think recording systems get chosen now days because of sound, as much as for convience.

P.T. is popular becuase bands can do pre-production at home, go to strudio XYZ to track drums, go home to do overdubs, and send the session files to studio ABC to mix. Not saying this is ideal, but it is the way it is.

Logic Audio is still incredibly popular, especially with the dance crowd, becuase it comes with a heap of usable soft instruments and effects.
You can make a great track, out of the box.

Unfortunately, whether or not a particular system sounds better will take a back seat to whether or not it meets the expectations of the client and best enables them to do what they (think they) want to do.

My 2 cents worth.

Oh- and Macs now have a 4 button mouse.

[Howard Jones]

"Unfortunately, whether or not a particular system sounds better will take a back seat to whether or not it meets the expectations of the client and best enables them to do what they (think they) want to do."

'Twas ever thus. Good post, nonetheless. My previous post was meant as a teaser... there are contributors to this forum who agonise over whether or not an Alesis 3630 will sound any good if patched up with a Black Lion mod, others who appear to reject the evil digital format outright and meanwhile a huge percentage of the industry accept PT as the default position. I see critiques of why Digidesign is a no-good company but meanwhile very few comment on whether PT sounds much good.

Part of the problem as I see it is that buyer choice at the lower-middle price range is becoming limited as once independent companies get snaffled up by their larger competitors whilst other systems can be considerably more expensive than PT. Then there is the ever present question of file compatibility vs proprietary formats.

[Peter Knight]

If Andy Wallace mixes from PT it's good enough for me....

Maybe it's something to do with his skills rather than the playback medium.

[Andrew]

At the risk of getting flamed: I do not like the sound of 'Practice Tools' when lots of edits have taken place. It just sounds bad, not musical. More edits = more degraded sound. Maybe it needs longer wordlengths built into the program or maybe just less plugins to each voice/instrument?

P.s. This is my opinion only and please by all means prove me wrong...gotta a cd with 10,000 + edits & plugins that sounds fantastic done on 'Preppy Tools'. I'll go buy it and listen :wink: . Pyramix could be fantastic if it sounds better and has a 'decent usability friendly factor' to it

[chris p]

As Peter says, it ain't the 'Tools, it's the bloke behind the 'Tools.

Giving me Turtlerock won't make me R O'N!

Seriously folks, lets not get too Gearslutzy here. Although the old saying is NOT "A bad workman blames his Logic". :-)

[jkhuri44]

i find although you can do 10,000 plus edits on protools...

it doesnt necessarily mean you should....its that simple....

just ask the muzo's to play it again, and if they still suck...then you can do 2 things....1. tell em to get out.....2. edit the tracks....option 1 is preferable.....


Just a question to everyone that says, "PT sounds crap"....are you referring to Protools with Digidesign conversion?

Because you can use PT with "better" converters as im sure you know, ie. Apogee, Benchmark, Cranesong...i have never heard them with PT, but does it still sound bad with these converters??

And does PT still sound bad when you use the line amps and summing of external mixers and gear??

Again, all just questions...as I have never tried PT with the above mentioned.

[mfdu]

ok. i've been staying out of this, but . . .

so you can buy your own converters and fill your pc with ram and be happy without protools?

how many people who don't use protools have actually bought their alternative software? (nuendo, logic, etc)
no-one i know that is running an 'alternate' software recording system has actually bought - it's all pirate (arrgh)

the reason i went the protools path is this -
i got hardware AND software, and it is designed to work together.

but they don't work together like tape and a tape deck do they, linear?

next time i upgrade, it'll be something standalone like a mackie HD24/96 (full analogue in/out).
at that point, i'd keep the computer for archiving, cd duplication and artwork
an external screen could be handy, but i don't really edit beyond drop-ins and basic comping . . . and i haven't dealt with midi for at least 9 months:)

chris.

[Kris]

I think that for something to sound "bad", you must have something that sounds "good" to compare it to. And given that Pro Tools/Logic/Pyramix are all relatively new in the overall scheme of the history of the recording arts I think it would be a fair assumption that most people, when saying "Pro Tools sounds bad" really mean "analogue sounds good".

If that is indeed the case then this is a war that will never be won and a thread that will never end.

[kassonica]

Hi

"how many people who don't use protools have actually bought their alternative software? (nuendo, logic, etc)
no-one i know that is running an 'alternate' software recording system has actually bought - it's all pirate (arrgh)"

Well I use digital performer and have been buying it since version 4. I believe in supporting software that makes you money (even if it crashes sometimes) I would love to have it as a front end for a pro tools rig but alas i'm a little short, but i make do.

Kassonica
[/quote]

[Jason Dirckze]

Another one here that doesnt use PT (at home) and has paid for alternate software/hardware.

One of the main reasons I didnt buy PT is because all I could afford would be an LE system, along with it's not so great converters and mic pres. I went for a MOTU PCI interface and Cubase SX. SX can export OMF's so no issues sending sessions to PT HD based studios.

[Kris]

sorry...missed that bit. Yes, I have bought and payed for Logic since version 5, as well as all of my plugins and software instruments.

[Henry]

Most Studios I know of bought Protools because of Tracks, simultaneous ins and outs. Sound was secondary.

Tracks is no longer an issue, thus Protools pull has waned has it not??

Protools is also a poor editor, compared to Samplitude. Sam just blows it away, no comparison really and probably the same with Logic.

I'd be interested to hear what Rick says about this. I think Protools is losing its attraction because its overpriced and generally average sounding plugins?

[kassonica]

Here here for motu!! I find my 828mk2 and performer is not the best in town but it's more than paid for itself and digi design "ATTITUDE" really bothers me. After having 2 disks mastered at turtlerock by Rick who said it sounded fine and one mastered at 301 (by the client) all is good. I don't need pro tools , and as it stands i don't like it :) But i do love my mac because there is NO other option if there, was i'd check it out.

Kassonica

[chris p]

how many people who don't use protools have actually bought their alternative software? (nuendo, logic, etc)
no-one i know that is running an 'alternate' software recording system has actually bought - it's all pirate (arrgh)

Chris, you know LOTS of people (from this forum at least) who run other programs they have actually bought. I'm in the legitimate Logic camp, and have been for many, many years. Sounds like you've been fed some digiganda that says there's only protools or pirates.

[mfdu]

chris P - i'm happy to see that you are right.

i think things must have changed a bit over the last couple of years - last time i polled on levels of ownership, it was not a good story. that was beofre i entered the digi camp, and i was looking at MOTU, RME etc as options . . .

but i'm determined - next upgrade for me will be a standalone rig. that way, SCSI, PCI or PCIe just won't matter!

chris.

[Chris H]

For the mini survey that it seems this thread has become :
Started with Logic 3, went to Qbase for a few years as it was used at the studio i was at, with Spectral Producer and always runing Tape in sync. Spectral was by far the best for audio editing back then. ( mid 90's) .The developer behind Spectral went to design for Paris. Ran Protools on my audio media 3 card but because of sync issues it was not useful fo my purposes. Since i left the Qbase/ Spectral studio i have been using Logic exlusivley. The copies of Logic / qbase etc have always been licenced.

[Andrew]

A skilled person can use any tool yes.....but quality tools mean:
More enjoyable to use, lasts longer, works better, easier to use which usually results in a better finished product. My woodworking friend showed me the benefits of good quality tools coupled with skill years ago and its paid off.

I had a elcheapo drill die after one use brand new out of the box...had a dvd player not even work out of the box. note to self: stop buying cheap stuff.

The sm*58 has long been regarded the benchmark of dynamic mic's. This does not make it the best sounding mic. Probtools is kindof the benchmark now for computer recording, or at least the most used & advertised...I still don't like its the sound. Sure I'm probably comparing it to tape but it would be great to have another computer based program that 'sounds oh so so much better' rival it. Plodtools may sound better with other convertors and everything else but so does a sm*58 with different mic pre's & compressors.

Now all I'm really saying is its about recording great sound (not gearslutz) and we should from time to time look at every part of the chain to achieve the best sound for each situation (which could be lofi aswell). Improving bad areas within budget can be beneficial: gear, room, knowledge etc. and much less so convertors

I still don't like the sound of Protols but then I don't like coffee beans being burnt too much. Some people listen to eyepods all day and drink Do-omed coffee...not my cup of tea :wink:

[Andrew]

A skilled person can use any tool yes.....but quality tools mean:
More enjoyable to use, lasts longer, works better, easier to use which usually results in a better finished product. My woodworking friend showed me the benefits of good quality tools coupled with skill years ago and its paid off.

I had a elcheapo drill die after one use brand new out of the box...had a dvd player not even work out of the box. note to self: stop buying cheap stuff.

The sm*58 has long been regarded the benchmark of dynamic mic's. This does not make it the best sounding mic. Probtools is kindof the benchmark now for computer recording, or at least the most used & advertised...I still don't like its the sound. Sure I'm probably comparing it to tape but it would be great to have another computer based program that 'sounds oh so so much better' rival it. Plodtools may sound better with other convertors and everything else but so does a sm*58 with different mic pre's & compressors.

Now all I'm really saying is its about recording great sound (not gearslutz) and we should from time to time look at every part of the chain to achieve the best sound for each situation (which could be lofi aswell). Improving bad areas within budget can be beneficial: gear, room, knowledge etc. and much less so convertors

I still don't like the sound of Protols but then I don't like coffee beans being burnt too much. Some people listen to eyepods all day and drink Do-omed coffee...not my cup of tea :wink:

[heathen]

[quote="kassonica"] But i do love my mac because there is NO other option if there, was i'd check it out.

Kassonica[/quote]

Pc is an extremely viable option, it's cheap, very reliable and very easy to fix if something goes wrong. I killed my pc ( internet and test machine) all by myself a few weeks back ( please don't ask) anyway 9 am the next morning my tech mate turns up and by 10 am the computer is better than new. I'll never say 1 is better than the other concerning mac and pc, though I prefer pc.
My new system consists of an AMD dual core 4400 ( this $700 cpu was the most expensive part), 2 gig of ram, 200 gig hd, super quiet power supply and cpu cooler,$2400 all up with monitor and stuff, what more do you need. It's a beast, it runs almost countless plugins without even denting the cpu, only starts clapping out with multiple instances of some highly intensive cpu load LP eq's. With Apogee conversion this rig works very well. Any reasonably decent system with great conversion should serve its purpose well, in the end it is the user.

I've never used Pro Toolz (using nuendo), but am going to have a crash course on it real soon helping a mate mixing a short film for a couple of days. Yeaterday we were chatting about latency and he mentions ptools does'nt have automatic delay compensation, I find this quite odd as it's been implemented in most other software for years. He works at 1 of the best film audio production joints in oz and they are happilly nudgeing tracks back and forth all the time. In nuendo its just done for you.

I'll always be 1 to say that if your rig works for you thats all you need really. But I'll defineately recommend daws consisting of pc and RME hdsp cards as rock solid. The metering you get with the card is probably worth it anyway by itself. I recently sold my Mackie hdr for this rig and am very happy, though the hdr is a superb recorder, my needs changed in favour of a daw. I'll probably buy samplitude next as it seems more user friendly.Though I love nuendo as the gui reminds me of my hdr. Or even Reaper I used the demo and loved it.

Heath

[otto ruiter]

"Or even Reaper I used the demo and loved it. "

Reaper is up to version 1.30 already. Looks like it will provide FX networking soon using its ReaNet FX feature. Great software, great price, great quality (64bit engine).

[smash]

"Plodtools may sound better with other convertors and everything else but so does a sm*58 with different mic pre's & compressors."

Doesn't Bono use a 58 exclusively in the studio?, Sounds OK to me.

Just for the record I own (I.E. paid for) full versions of Logic, Stylus RMX, Melodyne, 'Tools, paid all my PT upgrades, and don't have a single crack/dodgy plug.

(rant warning) I don't see how any one who wants to make money from engineering could use cracks. (end of rant)

I recorded an orchestral percussion piece on Wednesday night, and used Logic as the recording platform with MOTU converters. The reason I chose logic over 'tools - Becuase the composer was running his own logic system at home and wanted the ability to tweak the session himself. Even if I had a brand new kicking pyramix rig, I wouldn't have been able to use it becuase the client wanted to take the sesison and play it on his system with the exact same mix and plug-in settings that he heard when we recorded it.

Smash.