Urgent help with TVC music licensing for Sweden

[vanderlae]

Hi folks,

I'm in a corner at the moment and could really use some advice from anyone with experience with music for overseas TVC use.

I've been asked to quote for the re-use (rollover) of music that I composed & licenced for a premium car campaign a couple of years back. They want costs for 3, 6 & 12 months' use for TV in Sweden only. I haven't quoted for one territory before, so I'm at a loss.

My client is using an outsourcing agency in the UK handle the TV dealings, and that's who I've been contacted by. As I normally do, I asked if they knew the budget because it has helped in the past with their client (who was my direct client at the time). They said they're not sure of the client budget but they would normally expect to pay between £1000 - £2000 for Swedish TV (only) for 1 year. Umm....

This is VERY low it would appear, comparing it against what they paid me in the past for UK/Europe rights.

I need to submit some figures in the next couple of hours when people in London start to crawl out of the pubs and back into ad land. I know talking figures is not best practice, but it would greatly help me if anyone could chime in suggest what TV for 1 year usage in 1 territory might be worth.

Thanks very muchly...

[Kurt]

Sweden has about 9.4 million people (less than half the population of Australia) If my maths is correct it is a little over 1% of the European population (not including GB I think)

If you've licensed stuff to the whole of Europe, divide that amount by 100, add a little bit, and Johan is your uncle!

I clearly have no experience with anything of any use to any body, did you get more than £200,000 last time

[vanderlae]

Yeah, it's hard to know which angle to look at it but it's probably not best working off population because I'd get bubcas. Russia was the highest TV broadcaster out of all Europe/UK in the original licence (Russia!) and if the fee was based on population alone the other territories by contrast wouldn't have contributed $$ a great deal to the overall fee!

I wish clients would offer up front their budget...it's not like they don't have one. You end up either charging a lot more and they tell you no we can only do this, or you charge less to be cautious and end up feeling like you could have done better on the deal. I really wish I had someone playing producer...this side of it isn't fun. Takers?!

[Kurt]

On the other hand, in my experience, if some one says "What's your budget?" the price will be pretty bloody close to that every time.

When I want to buy something, how much money I have is not the sellers business. They obviously have a figure in mind that they will accept, what is it?

[vanderlae]

I dig. It's £1000 − £2000 according to the outsourcing client's stab in the dark, which tells me they have no clue. Sounds arbitrary to me, I really think they're trying to get a good price on behalf the ad agency to look good. I've been a buyer before, I guess I would too in their shoes. I have no idea what the agency's budget might be this time, it's a guessing game. Hence the shout-out.

If they were asking me to quote for all territories that'd be easy because I'd have history to go by. All I have speculation to go by at the moment!

[ChrisW]

I wish clients would offer up front their budget...it's not like they don't have one. You end up either charging a lot more and they tell you no we can only do this, or you charge less to be cautious and end up feeling like you could have done better on the deal. I really wish I had someone playing producer...this side of it isn't fun. Takers?!

I think they do it on purpose because they know most people undersell themselves.
I've only had to deal with this a couple of times and it was really a guessing game, and secondly I had a tv oriented publisher to help advise me.
What I've found is that fees are all over the place. Someone might offer you a fortune for a tiny segment in a small country, another might offer you an insult to use a chunk of music on a highly rated tv show.
I don't think Kurt's idea to calculate a percentage of your usual Euro-wide fee was a bad one.
In the end you just have to quote a figure you can live with, and hope they don't fall over in shock.

[Drumstruck]

Reuse price = last price x reuse reduction factor / probability of alternative sale of song x inflation markup + administration fee

How about 2/3 of the original price?

[Kurt]

That seems obscene given the massively reduced audience, the fact that it is not a new work, there is no mention of exclusivity, the very low inflation rate, the very high value of our currency and the fact that "administration fee" is a euphemism for "I want more but can't think of any way to justify it"

Reuse price = last price x reuse reduction factor / probability of alternative sale of song x inflation markup + administration fee

How about 2/3 of the original price?