Studio advice.

[badgrrmmr]

Hi All,

I am currently studying at one of the audio colleges in Sydney and still have a while to go in my studies but I'm seeking to further my knowledge in a working studio. I'm looking for work as a bin emptier/coffee maker/indentured servant in a local studio a few days a week (for free). I have a few questions though before I potentially embarrass myself (which I probably doing right now but here goes anyway )

I'm sure no-one wants a know-it-all, who doesn't know how to behave in front of clients and is generally a pain in the arse to have around but:

What do you look for in a potential employee?
Do you like to see their previous work with a resume?
Do you look for someone who still needs some training?
Are there areas where knowledge is assumed?
Do you prefer an email or to meet in person when someone is asking you for a job?

I know in myself these are probably basic, somewhat silly questions and I understand everyone is different however I'd like to know how to approach it respectfully and hopefully successfully enough to be able to gain as much knowledge and experience I can.

I'll probably get flamed for this but any advice would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks in advance,
Ryan.

[waitup]

Hi Ryan,

I'm probably not much older or more experienced than you in the grand scheme of things but I've managed to land a couple of studio jobs before and have managed to stay off the coffee machine for a living for a while now, so a couple of tips that have helped me and might help you...

What do you look for in a potential employee?

Most employers probably look for a self starter. You have to be able to see a job that needs doing and just do it without being asked. Also, in this day and age, if it's a recording studio job you're going for, there has to be the potential for you to bring work to the studio. If you're not already in bands and meeting bands... get cracking!

Do you like to see their previous work with a resume?

The last two audio related jobs I've had the employers didn't even look at my resume. It's probably more about being personable. Realistically at this stage of your career (mine too), nothing you can show them that you've done will be a blip on their radar, so showreels are not always impressive to protential employers. It can't hurt to have a clear, concise and well presented resume and portfolio just in case though!

Do you look for someone who still needs some training?

I reckon I learned more about sound and how to work in a studio in the first week I worked for Rick than in the three years I studied sound. It's like learning to drive. You'll improve 10 fold the day Mum's not sitting in the passenger seat. Even if you don't think you need training, you do, so probably don't worry about it. In fact, if you can pick the employer, sometimes it's better to not even mention you went to audio school. It rubs some people the wrong way. IN FACT, if you are polite, intelligent, good at sound engineering and you smell OK, they'll probably presume you didn't go to audio school!

Do you prefer an email or to meet in person when someone is asking you for a job?

Depends on the person, but a phone call goes a long way. During my brief stint at Turtlerock I saw countless blanket emails "To the studio owner" who hadn't even bothered to find out the owners name. Seeing as there are litterally hundreds of audio students graduating every year I reckon you have to do better than that. An even better idea would be to meet the person by bringing a job to their studio. Main thing though is to be persistant. If you want a job somewhere, don't let them forget you're around. Not to the point of being a pest, but just a gentle poke every now and then so that.

Most of all, don't let anyone tell you it can't be done because you're young or because "the industry is dying". Trust me, it can be done. I'm doing it. Heaps of my good friends are doing it. My bands are doing it. All of my friends bands are doing it. You just have to try really hard and try not to be a dick to anyone who doesn't deserve it.

[waitup]

Just read that post back to myself and realised I sound like some sort of early morning motivational speaker... sorry about that.

Just thought of this Ira Glass quote:

“Nobody tells this to people who are beginners, I wish someone told me. All of us who do creative work, we get into it because we have good taste. But there is this gap. For the first couple years you make stuff, it’s just not that good. It’s trying to be good, it has potential, but it’s not. But your taste, the thing that got you into the game, is still killer. And your taste is why your work disappoints you. A lot of people never get past this phase, they quit. Most people I know who do interesting, creative work went through years of this. We know our work doesn’t have this special thing that we want it to have. We all go through this. And if you are just starting out or you are still in this phase, you gotta know its normal and the most important thing you can do is do a lot of work. Put yourself on a deadline so that every week you will finish one story. It is only by going through a volume of work that you will close that gap, and your work will be as good as your ambitions. And I took longer to figure out how to do this than anyone I’ve ever met. It’s gonna take awhile. It’s normal to take awhile. You’ve just gotta fight your way through.”

[Drumstruck]

Hi Ryan,

The other guys here can give you better advice than I, but I was in your boat (er um er 30+ years ago.....). So I suggest that you need to make yourself a valuable resource:

* don't be a pest but be regular and available anytime - let "them" get to know your face
* be neat / clean / polite / unopinionated / friendly - all that mature stuff
* practice basic skills in your own time - like running out cables / rolling up cables (without twisting) / gaffing / soldering / cable testing
* get a small mixer / PC (with student v. of PT) / couple of mics and stands and become very fluent at doing basic setups
* if you have friends with a band mix for them - even at rehearsals (and carry hearing protection always)
* do you play an instrument or sing? It's sometimes handy to have someone around who can step in

[Chris H]

The only thing i would add is the advantage of doing live mixing for bands. It's a great way of networking and learning to work under pressure. When a door opens into a studio you will have a ready network of contacts but it goes without saying that those you do work for had better like your work.

[The Tasmanian]

Good advice from all.
Whatever you do don't think sending emails and letters/resume's will get you in any door.
You gotta be MUCH more creative than that.
Sending out a resume/letter would have to be the laziest attempt at getting a job (to any smart business owner)
I used to get approx 5 or more requests a week for at least a decade.
Never did I employ anyone via their email/letter - only people I met, who had the persistence and nous to come and meet me, keep in touch, help out whenever they had free time - and learn and be a positive plus for my business.
Remember - its what you bring to a business - not what the business can give to you.

Sounds like you have the right attitude
Greatest of luck

[Manning]

OK I'm a potential "employer" (Caveat - I'm using the term "employer" in the literal sense of "putting to use" and not the more traditional sense of "a person capable of providing a paycheck").

Our studio is well on its way to becoming very decent. We've had a few paying clients. Blair (Djembe) has even been up to do session work for us.

We have some very nice mics (no pics sadly) and some other nice toys. (see here: http://www.dweezilzappaworld.com/photo_ ... 407/photos and some older pics here http://www.dweezilzappaworld.com/photo_ ... 157/photos).

Most importantly we have lots of space. I also have an engineer who is very old school and excellent.

The drawbacks - we are a long way from town. Glenorie is still technically in Sydney, but barely. Our space is a LONG way from being finished. We have some cool stuff to do (putting in baffles etc) but a lot of very uncool stuff to do (eg. thermal insulation, fixing the drainage outside).

If someone wanted to come and hang out we'd be delighted. If they had someone they wanted to record then I'm sure Marc would (eventually) let them work unsupervised. (Yes, he's uber-precious about the gear... but hey, go find an engineer who isn't).

I don't know if that's a tempting offer to this gentleman or anyone else, but hey, it's out there.

[badgrrmmr]

Wow! Such quick replies!

Nick: I was on your website as I was writing this last night! Love the Channel strip, looks very sexy... Thank you for dissecting each question and that Ira Glass quote is a fave of mine too, there's a Kinetic Typography video of it on Vimeo which is pretty cool.

Ian: Thank you for the advice, I'm slowly becoming a bit of an unsavoury robotic female (also the name of the other audio forum) gear wise. I've been trying to immerse myself in all things audio, live gigs, post prod and recording bands/solos/singers etc. as much as possible. I guess making myself invaluable is the best way to keep any job that may be thrown my way. Do you think getting into doing DIY kits will help? I was looking at building some of the BYOC and Hairball stuff.

Chris H: Do you think that a person can get 'typecast' by doing one thing or another? I'm currently doing some work here and there at a post studio and as mentioned above some live work with local singer/songwriters. Obviously one tailors their resume for a specific job but is there a point where a studio looking at what I've done previous will see me as more of a 'Post' or 'Live' guy? Or will any 'real world' experience be seen as a good thing?

Chris T (Wow) : I can imagine the amount of emails a studio would get and they would probably be considered junk mail. Thank you for the advice and the well wishes. Means a lot.

I think the one resounding message is to persistent, personable and available. And don't be a dick. Thank you all once again for taking the time to reply.

[Chris H]

Wow! Such quick replies!
..............

Chris H: Do you think that a person can get 'typecast' by doing one thing or another? I'm currently doing some work here and there at a post studio and as mentioned above some live work with local singer/songwriters. Obviously one tailors their resume for a specific job but is there a point where a studio looking at what I've done previous will see me as more of a 'Post' or 'Live' guy? Or will any 'real world' experience be seen as a good thing?
................

Typecast?
Yes, people make false assumptions about our work all the time. To my mind a good engineer is a versatile engineer but someone will do a job that gets commercial success and then other artists will often go to "that" engineer for "that" sound, usually for a season until they get a chance to bust out and do something else in a different style that earns them brownie points.
I keep this in mind and work hard at breaking down the "audio prejudices" i pick up in prospective clients. Australia is a small market and to survive long term you need a varied and adaptive skill set. The strength of your work will break the typecasting.
For us Ozzies, a lot of work goes to overseas recording, mixing and mastering engineers, particularly USA for no other reason than false assumptions and the Americans know it and actively play on it as a marketing strategy. I think Australian recording studios and personnel should be more assertive in fighting this and keeping our clients here. I suppose i'm not the only one who thinks there is a fair smattering of bullshit in the industry and we as a collective could wise up and play the game more to our advantage without diminishing our integrity.
I don't have any extensive experience in major studios and employment however i think most people who really matter re prospective employers will be able to get over such things and judge you on your own merit.

[mylesgm]

some good advice here...

Ryan, the practise around here is to put your name in your profile signature, no anonymity here. This is a good thing especially if you want to get your name out and about as a lot of people troll this forum and so if you are involved in good discussions here it reflects favourably on you, not only to the regular contributors (many of whom are your potential employers) but also to those who merely read. In fact the more you can get your name out there about the work you do (in a subtle way) the more likely people will take you seriously when you approach them.

As has been said but I'll reiterate, the best way to get work in this industry is to source that work yourself. Work for bands, individuals etc and if you have to work for free then make sure you are getting something out of it ie convince the band to pay for studio time so you're at least getting your foot in the door and learning the ropes of a studio whilst giving them a good deal and incentive to work with you over the house engineer. You'll get known by various people and then raise your rates. Go to all the gigs your friends are playing at and meet the support and other musos and just keep networking.

Get into DIY as it'll get you skilled at basic tech work and this is a real asset in the real world as understanding how gear works, earthing, cable making/repair etc is a good way to make yourself useful and to fix problems when you are in the studio on your own. Of course DIY is a good way to make some good gear cheaper than you can buy it and gives you something music related that can be a side hobby that actually rewards your professional career as well.

[Alistair]

As a related question-

How many people here are actually employed at a studio? I would imagine that 95% of us are freelancers/self-employed/own our own studios/have another occupation in or out of the music industry and do studio stuff part time or on the side.

In my circle of friends in the business I only know one person who was actually employed (casually nonetheless) at a studio rather than chasing his own work and booking studios when needed.

[badgrrmmr]

Apologies Myles, Didn't realise I hadn't done it yet (signature). Hopefully fixed that now. On the DIY, slightly off topic, do you think the BYOC stuff is a good place to start? And then would the logical progression be move onto Hairball or Gyraff stuff?

My plan for this year (amongst everything else) is to produce an EP for a pair of sisters from go-to-whoa in a studio outside of the ones my college have. While they're a good place to learn they don't sound the best. The girls don't have any originals yet but are both extremely talented singers, the plan being to come up with a sound for them, concept, write songs, assemble musicians, record, mix etc. and to release the finished product through an independent label.

I personally feel that while this is probably the best way to get work, I'm still a little too green to be doing it completely by myself. Which is where hopefully some work experience will help me and whichever studio that, fingers crossed, takes me on. I feel that I'd learn much more by watching how an established engineer works as opposed to just doing what I think is right on my own. I think I have a fairly solid grounding in recording and mixing but I don't know everything.

Thank you all again for taking the time to offer your advice, really helpful. Be prepared for some phone calls, follow-up emails and maybe even a stalker in the near future... At the very least some sessions booked.

[mylesgm]

Well I would still like to learn from a more experienced engineer but I've rarely had the luxury, most of the things I've learnt have been either from simply doing it and failing then trying again or from conversations, tidbits etc. Jump in the deep in and learn to swim because you have to... and then ask loads of questions. Not sure why but many people don't feel comfortable having another chap sitting quietly at the back of the room, I've asked many and varied people.

Don't be too concerned about finding an independent label to release your material, many of them are too busy releasing their own material and you're probably better off going independent and learning that too.

Guitar pedals are probably a good way to start but I started by racking modules, reading up and asking questions. Whatever floats your boat and will be something that you'll use.

[Drumstruck]

This link to AIR may assist:

http://www.air.org.au/index.php?apply=& ... menuID=205

[badgrrmmr]

Sorry, just to clarify the label is one that My partner (business, not lover) and I are starting with this EP to be our first release. Cheers for the link.

[rick]

Ryan

just go at it with your eyes wide open and your best effort at common sense and an understanding of people

life will sort it out

too many people over the years i have trained actually thought they wanted to do this stuff for a career

in the fullness of time they didn't ..

its important to note that because i only ever take on guys i think will be lifers ..
and i can spot them
but often enough
as their life changes
and they find out what is really going on in studios they fall into a career dilemma
if i see that happening
i encourage them to get out as fast as they can
its always a tough call but for the best

it takes a special kind of mind to hang around in dark rooms largely by yourself
unchecked and yet expected to be self checking .. always no matter what
so if you understand my meaning
be careful what you wish for

in todays market.. start making records as you have
take them to bigger studios as you can,
try and say hello to the boss if you can ..
keep at it .

and note for interest ,
I have been at the top of the game for well over 20 years ( 27 actually )
this year is the 5th time i have had to start over
reinvent and rethink my career path and ongoing income stream

and make no mistake
we are all at that process daily
even the best of us
so welcome to the club me thinks

[rob]

a few years back I got a phone call from a guy, his name was Ryan too. He said " could a make a time to come and see you this week?" I said sure but tell me about yourself, to which he replied " I've been looking at your website for quite a while now and have emailed you a couple of times. I'm from the USA and I've travelled to Australia to see if I can work and learn from you." So we met up and I discovered that while he didn't know much about electronics, there was no doubt about his enthusiasm and a desire to not only learn but contribute. So Ryan worked for me for around nine months then returned home to the USA and landed a job at Moog. With a couple of years formal study to flesh out his knowledge he is now in the Moog R+D department.

Right place, right time but more than anything he took a big punt to create his own opportunities.

[mylesgm]

ballsy and I'm glad it worked out for him (and you). Seems too often people aren't interested in befriending or sharing with others and too busy trying to prevent their ideas and processes being stolen or maybe they are shy or self conscious... The guys I hand all the extra work I can't do to are always the guys that are the most open, friendly and encouraging though so maybe thats a form of karma. I don't believe in Karma though, I believe in people taking responsibility for being as good as they can be. Thats got me screwed over a few times though...

[badgrrmmr]

I'm completely floored by who's replying to this... Thank you all, again, so much for taking the time to impart some wisdom. I'm definitely taking it all in.

Rick: Some would say special mind, many would say crazy... Thank you for the warm welcome.

Rob: I was contemplating doing a similar thing by heading abroad to try and find work there, get some experience and come back a (hopefully) better engineer and contribute to the industry back here. I agree with Myles it was ballsy for my namesake to do that but it paid off in the end, got a solid grounding in electronics that has allowed him to continue on his chosen path. So the end justified the means.

I've come to the realisation that there's not much over there that I can't learn here, might be a nice working holiday though.

I think, in this industry especially, that the sharing of 'secrets' and ideas is only a good thing, no two people hear things the same way so even if you're shown something, when one applies that process etc. nine times out of ten it's going to sound completely different. If it's a workflow thing then sharing something that saves time is always a good thing.

Gonna get off my soap box now...

So, from the feedback I'm getting, I should be trying to use professional studios for my own work as much as possible in lieu of looking for work as a coffee bitch? Then climbing the ladder that way?

Would you advise that I work with the house engineer a few times to try and learn a little from him/her before just booking rooms myself or just jump in the deep end?

[waitup]

Definitely spend some time with the house engineer. The band will loose respect for you immediately if they see you're unsure about how to operate the studio!

[badgrrmmr]

Yeah it'd be a pretty quick death... Probably a silly question really.

Ok, I'm going to leave everyone on here alone now, don't want to over-stay the welcome.(probably already have a little) Thank you all for your input! Really helps solidify the right way of going about things. Hopefully we'll all cross paths sometime in the near future and until we do I wish you all the best of luck with everything.

Regards,
Ryan.

[Chris H]

Depending on the studio, it has always been the case that the house engineer will be on call to assist when needed when the engineer is unfamiliar with the studio's patching, desk operation etc. When I have worked on sessions at sing sing, metropolis etc this was always the setup. Any studio, being a business that want's to be booked by outside engineers would be open to giving a new engineer some time to get to know the place, hang out as an observer for a few recordings where appropriate.

[jasound]

As a related question-

How many people here are actually employed at a studio? I would imagine that 95% of us are freelancers/self-employed/own our own studios/have another occupation in or out of the music industry and do studio stuff part time or on the side.

In my circle of friends in the business I only know one person who was actually employed (casually nonetheless) at a studio rather than chasing his own work and booking studios when needed.

I'm employed at a studio, apparently I'm the only employee of the NSW government with the title
"Recording Engineer".

[rick]

dont let it get to your head jason
you still working in a home studio
albiet a waterfront house

( the sydney opera house - folks )

[Chris H]

yes, not a bad job that one

[jasound]

Does that mean I make House music Rick.

[Gillian Lee]

Hi Ryan,

I'm also probably not much older/more experienced than you, but here's my two cents.
I don't work in a studio fulltime, I used to work as an assistant in the UK and now I freelance in Melbourne and do full-time acoustic consulting.
I've had the good fortune to sit in on some great sessions with engineers, in the US and here and it's a great way to learn fast, especially if they're willing to explain some processes/concepts to you. Some studios in the US have aspiring engineers sitting in on their sessions almost on a weekly basis. The 'I'm from overseas' card will help get your foot in the door, but you've got to follow it up by being awesome. +1 on all the great comments others have offered here.
Doing your first session in a studio is scary, but everyone has to do it. The first one I did was a very basic acoustic guitar and vocals ep- nice and simple. I had a meeting with the house engineer prior who talked me through the gear, possible setups etc and I studied the patching diagrams before heading in. He sat in on the session and helped out when things went off-course, and we had a post-session chat about what I did well and what I could improve on. It was a good approach starting simple, and working with the house engineer.

[rick]

Does that mean I make House music Rick.

Well if your going to be the house engineer
Might as well be the most famous house in the world

House music ..?
Sure why not

[perplexed]

Just wanted to chime in here guys and say I've really enjoyed this thread.
I'm very much a newbie myself. Greener than most I suspect..
First time post'r but long time lurker.

Thanks Ryan and to all those who have contributed.
Cheers,

[Manning]

Welcome Dale.

It's late and I've just spent all weekend writing orchestral cues while coughing up my lungs from this hellish flu some bastard gave me, but I thought I'd at least say hello.

There's a wealth of knowledge to be had here, so enjoy yourself.