Who's using what and for who?

[Luke Garfield]

Basically I want to know, because I know plenty of you guys/gals have read lots of different things, what "X" engineer is using for "X" artist. In particular vocal chains. Mic and pre etc.

I am interested in all genres but in particular R'n'B, Jazz derivatives and intimate folk. Male and female artists.

Yes this post has a purpose - I want to buy a mic or maybe two and add to the pres I have (wow that's something new and fresh!!!). Sorry for the sarcasm but I really want to cut through the guff and know what is working for ppl.

Any replies long or short are much appreciated.

Luke.

[heathen]

Ok to start with
Buzz Audio, anything, it's all good.
Smart Research, C2 comp, great comp.
Pendulum anything.
A Designs, anything, awesome pre's I'm about to get some.
Daking pre/eq, very very nice. I want 1 of those too, next year.
Avalon, most things

Nick, who is Aearth on the forum has alot of these pieces for hire, so you could maybe hire them and give em a test run first.

Heath

[Luke Garfield]

Hey Heath,

Cool list of gear. I definitely think I might do the hire thing. It was me hiring some nice kit recently that made me realise the great value in a good front end.

The mic/s I get are the first piece of the puzzle I want to fill in. Something classic? Something newer and more boutique? Something vintage and obscure? An all-rounder? Something with a distinct tone?

Now then the pre-amp you throw behind the mic changes things again....

This is why I'm wondering what some of my favourite artists are using to get their vocal sounds. For example Emiliana Torrini's Fisherman's woman. An amazing vocal sound. Stuff like that.

Cheers,

Luke.

[scott]

For something that specific maybe try the engineer who recorded it. May take some ass kissing and ego stroking but it would be the only way to be shure. Knowing what size/type of room into what mic, pre-amp, compressor for every record would be great. Some singers are so good you'd have your work cut out trying to make them sound bad.

Good instrument/player
good room/placement
good microphone
good pre-amp

Anything after this is only less than half as important in the scheme of things.
Notice as an engineer you only have control over some of those(depending on your mind powers).

Easy answer u47, neve, la-2a. for vocals and bass
you will not be disapointed.

[Luke Garfield]

Hey Scott. Yeah I've definitely come to terms with the quality of the performer vs. the quality of the gear. That's actually the reason I started the thread.

Basically, I was doing some doubling of a lead vocal for a track, I had recorded the 1st take with an M49 through a neve (hired of course as I wouldn't be having this discussion if I had one of my own ;-). The 2nd pass was with a different mic Studio Projects TB1 into 376 Telefunken pre. The vocalist has a great voice that she knows how to work and so it wasn't for lack of talent. I dropped a section of the new take into the channel of the old take and the difference between the 2 was absolutely insane!

Now I know the comparison here is pretty extreme but I know I can get a "decent" vocal sound out of the Studio Project and telefunken combo. But the M49 you just keep turning up cause it sounds so "delicious". Hence I'm on the search now.

the 47, neve and la-2a - yep I've thought about that or 47, avalon? I like things that are a bit "odd" too. I have a lomo 19a9 which has a sound and is quite a nice mic for the right song - a little noisy so needs to be a "louder" track.

I guess what I'm asking is what is a generic starting point for certain genres? RnB - 47 + avalon?? Rock - 87 or 47 + neve?? Folk - obscure tube mic + equally obscure ukrainian pre-amp?? Or this rule doesn't apply?

Am I making sense? Maybe not ;-)

[davemc]

it really depends on the singer and sound your after.
no mic or pre is 100% all rounder

I have had in the last 4-6 years mic wise.
Rode Classic II. distorts easy. not great for female voices or acoustic works ok on males
Soundelux u99 great on females, acoustics etc nice top end.. A little light on for color for male singers
Soundelux ifet 87. sounded sim to my u87 in u87 mode, had second color with fet47 mode. ok although mic it slef had problems so I did not have much time before sending it back
Nuemann U87.. Works or does not work. Has a color that again works or not he he Not always my fav but you can make do.
Soundelux E47. U47 clone.. Sounded great on Male rock vocals etc Female vocals just did not do it for me..
Neumann M149. Not the nice low mids of teh U47 or the top of u99. not a super coloured mic (some say clean and boring) although i really liked it as it worked for almost everything.

I have also owned a lot of mic pres and compressors over the years most work for sonethings and not as good for others. Apart again for my Buzz pre which as clean woks for a lot of things and my neve comps which always added nice color. Thats why i kept the m149,buzz and neve 2254 until now when i am basically selling out
so i would say get a mixture or work out what you do most of.

I just do not like many new cheap mics, i mean you see ads that say great etc for the $'s. yeah not really great then

[chris p]

Hey Luke

As Lance Armstrong says, its not about the bike.

You could buy a U47 - neve - pultec - LA-2A chain (after mortgaging your house) and still have unmixable takes. Or you could record a grammy winning album with an SM57 and a cassette 4-track (especially if your name is Beck).

Gear lust is the wrong path, brother.

[Luke Garfield]

Holy crap. I just watched that movie! I mean literally. If that's where you're quoting it from.

As far as gear lust goes - I hear what you're saying. I agree and I really don't like to focus on gear. That's really why I want to know what ppl are using for those albums that I love.

Gear does matter and good gear makes the artistic process just that - artistic. If you're fighting with sounds it's a pain in the ass but if you place the mic (which I find artistic as well) turn up the gain and it just happens - time to get on and record something special.

I had a friend who was (and still is) an amazing musician. He could play a number of instruments very well and picked up the piano in a few weeks like he'd been playing it for years. He had a band that was very cool and had a good following but he always played this cheap crappy guitar through a cheap crappy amplifier. He recorded at a good studio with an SSL, some decent mics and the rest. The recording was good - but there in the midst of his amazing playing was this crappy little guitar and a crappy little amp.

Good gear should be musical. Gear lust is for those who struggle to find something musical to record or want a magic solution to a mythical problem.

All in all I want some great tools so I can forget about "fixing" sounds and focus on the vibe of a track, experimenting, re-arranging and in general being creative.

[davemc]

I do not think gear is the be all. Although I do like good gear. :)
You do need a certain level or sound to get a certain level of sound or as you said your fighting against stuff. I have heard great recordings just done with simple stuff as the songs everything is great and heard recordings done at big studios which sounded like demos.
I often get people ask me after they record that sound is what I am after with my chinese LDC and mbox at home you just got for me. Although when they work out what the chain is worth, well for demos at home they are happy with what they have. I do think at least a nicer preamp helps, something DIY if your short on money to get you above the lower stuff.
A 57 through a nice pre even worth only $1k s/h will sounds a lot better then a 57 into a mackie.
Although a crap muso will still sound crap into anything he he

[heathen]

I agree gearlust is for people looking for a magical cure, though when buying good gear which is expensive and there are so many designers out there, it's essential to ask questions and do research before buying something you "think you need". When I bought Daves Pendulum ES8 I knew I was buying a great unit though when I got it I was'nt so sure as it's a fiddly unit, the inputs and outs are a pain in arse to calibrate but... after spending time with it and getting to know it and find the sweet spots I know I'll probably never sell it, as I use it all the time. Not all expensive gear is good though in my opinion.


Actually heard a few comparisons the other day btween a neve 1073 and the A designs 500 series range, the P1 especially blew the neve out of the water in my opinion but thats just my taste and a big call, maybe the neve was busted. Though it was only a few mp3's, instantly I knew what I liked. Actually I even prefered the P1's over thier more expensive pacifica pre.


Great gear is in the ear of the beholder and the user. Though gimmee Avalon over be!@#$%^& anyday. There are brands though that are just well made and just continue to work and work well. The Buzz range is great and Tim Farrant who owns the company and designs the gear is a top bloke and great engineer not trying to re create the past, I like the fact too they are sort of local.


A great vocal chain could be , mic of choice> buzz ma 2.2 or elixer pre or P1> buzz soc or la2a > avalon eq, very sweet and quite transparent depening on mic choice. I'm getting an elixir pre this week and a P1 (for colour) in a couple of weeks, been needing them for ages. Or even try a buzz essence comp instead, they are getting rave reviews, same as the Soc though with trannies on the ins and outs, I'm looking forwaed to one of these too.


But in the end as Dave said great musicians make great music, on any gear I guess, Becks mellow gold is a great example.

[Kris]

Chandler LTD-1

Empirical Labs Distressor

Wagner U47 with M7 capsule.

I haven't found a vocalist that doesn't sound a million bucks through that chain. I'm sure there are dozens of other possibilities with other mics and pre's but I'm pretty happy with this one.