Whos using a passive mixer - and what pre's for gain?

[The Tasmanian]

Could not agree more on the skill set stuff.
I get to mix the most futuristic electronic music on my set-up, straight ahead rock/ acoustic/orchestra's/jazz- you name it.
A passive mixing set-up with a varied set of great vintage and modern outboard allows a modular setup that can mutate into each production.
In addition we too have what all the plebs have - plug-ins.

[ChrisW]

Hey, I'm a pleb with plug-ins.

[chribble]

Potentially unrelated.

Stem vs Individual track summing?
so are you guys panning individual tracks and sending to stereo groups in the DAW?
Then sending your pre-panned stereo group hard L-R to the summing mixer?

Or panning individual tracks on the summing mixer?

I'd think stems would be easier to recall?

Just want to know if there is a sonic difference here?

[ChrisW]

I'm no expert, but I think the more tracks you can separate the better.
I only have 8 outputs on my interface, so I group like sounding audio as a pre-panned stereo group over 4 groups (eg: 4 x stereo).
However, as I'm doing club music, I'm going to start using channel 1 & 2 on my Proharmonic summing mixer in mono, centre selected. I'll at least have bass drum and bass going there, possibly other mono, percussive sounds.
So 1 & 2 mono centre. 3&4, 5&6, 7&8 in stereo, hard panned left and right. If I had an additional 8 channels from the converter I would separate more audio.

[jkhuri44]

what if you have a mono kick with a stereo send? (serious question here!)

[chribble]

cw let me know how that goes. i use drum buss compression anyway so i'll probably just sum to stereo for drums.

[ChrisW]

what if you have a mono kick with a stereo send? (serious question here!)

I tend not to fx my kicks, but I group my fx to the same outs as my washier keyboards anyway.
So mono kick would still go to ch1, any kick reverb or stereo delay would be routed to the keys out, probably 7&8.
I only have 8 choices at the moment.
Washy keyboards and fx go to 7&8, percussive keyboards (sequencers etc) got to 5&6, top kit (hats, claps perc) to 3&4 and mono sounds needing to feel centred and in your face go to 1 & 3 (unpanned).
This is totally unscientific on my part I should stress.
Rob's box doesn't pan, it switches. So your passive mixer choices are: left - centre - right.
Panning in the traditional sense needs to take place in the DAW.

[Chinagraf]

I've never felt there was a big adavantage with only 8 channels of summing. I used to do 16, usually 4 mono and 6 stereo, so kick, snare, bass and lead vocal all mono centered, then drums/guitars/keys/synths/backing vox/fx returns, although sometimes it would vary this was my default template.
Interesting you are doing club music Chris, I have been predominantly doing club and remixes for the past few years which is what led my away from analog summing. To me a hybrid setup of outboard and itb mixing actually sounds better for club/dance stuff. I am about to get back into producing some band based stuff so thinking about heading the passive mix way once more...

[ChrisW]

Yeah, well I haven't done anything worth releasing yet, so I'll absolutely defer to your experience.
I have the old SSL Quad Compressor which I stick across the whole mix (just tickling the needle) and with the right choice of mic/pre's I can add some more balls and some grit to my club mixes.
Quite possibly cleaner, tighter mixes sound better on a club system. I haven't got to that stage yet.

[Chinagraf]

SSL comp is awesome for that sort of stuff though, I have an old 384. (Have you ever tried tickling at 10:1 on a mix? When it works it works..) You can almost eq the bottom end by adjusting the attack/release time. But bit off topic...back to the program.. yes, I was never using selectable make up gain pres, it was a console with 5532 opamps, but I personally just couldn't get things to hit, particularly in the mids the way I can get it to with the hybrid setup. Obviously other people can, club stuff was mixed on consoles for years, but not me. I'd really like to try a passive mix setup though, love that new version Rob has made with monitor controller etc..
maybe some JLM BA's for makeup..then a little lipstick..I have nice cheekbones..

[jkhuri44]

i use SSL waves plugin for electronic (def not the same sound as the original, but it works on mixes)....one of my favourite limiters on the master is Voxengo Elephant in hard clip mode. It sounds bloody sick...big big sound...and just hard sounding enough for electronic.

Back to summing talk

[rightintheface]

digging up an old thread here, but just saw some Rola 77's on gumtree if anyone is interested
http://www.gumtree.com.au/s-ad/north-hobart/audio/valve-tape-machines/1005657248
Disclaimer: Got nuthin' to do with me, if I had the coin to throw at them I would.

[Text_Edifice]

I just mixed a track through my pair of 77's today – I've found myself going back and forward between the Rola's and Telefunken 672's. The 672's are more refined but the Rola's usually win hands down for rockier stuff.

[The Tasmanian]

I still use my 77MkIIIs mostly - or a custom pair of valve comps I have made by Andrew Kay.
Even for really electronic albums - I find valve class A stuff to sound incredible as a master fader.
I will soon be getting a pair of VP28's so I can get a more API sounding mix bus for a different choice.
This is the great thing about passive mix buses - you can change flavour .
And mixing into that particular sound - and how it responds to the material is another total bonus you dont get ITB.
Ive had a few mixes recently where I had a close mix, and decided to change the pre's and see what would happen (normally I make the choice before I start).
The mixes sounded very different with various different pre's - and it was no way subtle.

Dave - did Rob restore your Rola's? - and take out the record path stuff?

[Text_Edifice]

The way changing the line amp changes mix levels / eq curves / etc. is interesting and sometimes really useful. I will typically settle on a choice of amp after a quick fader / pan mix but will also occasionally switch again towards the end as the timbral / perspective shift this entails can sometimes help snap the mix into focus. Kinda like putting the same photo in two different frames.

Chris - yep Rob tricked out my 77's. I think you might have ended up with some of Myles' Trimax A55's? Have found these occasionally work nicely as well. Bit more 'refined' than the Rola's.

[ChrisW]

Did my first (electronic) mix with the VP28's this week. Excellent.
I couldn't hear much difference between them and my Q8 MM100's, but my MM100's had been my favourite make-up amps until now. So ow I have two great go to set ups.