rant...

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Re: rant...

Postby Chris H » Thu Aug 02, 2012 3:14 pm

Chris H wrote:I think we have a right to be a bit jaded over the prices charged for pro audio here in oz. I continue to be mystified over this little price comparison for a product made here in Richmond.

C2 compressor.

Price from Uk distributor direct:
Uk pound
1950 --------------Au $2895

Us Mercenary price:
US $ 2950 --------Au $2817

Australian distributor direct:
Au $3515

As a certain infamous fish and chip proprietor would say......... Please Explain?


Caveat:
.........the UK price may or may not include VAT which is 20% :D
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Re: rant...

Postby jkhuri44 » Thu Aug 02, 2012 3:25 pm

do you like argying with yourself chris ? :P
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Re: rant...

Postby Ben M » Thu Aug 02, 2012 3:33 pm

Chris H wrote:I think we have a right to be a bit jaded over the prices charged for pro audio here in oz. I continue to be mystified over this little price comparison for a product made here in Richmond.

C2 compressor.

Chris H wrote:The Smart C2



C2 is made in the UK. When did they start making them in Oz Chris?? :-\
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Re: rant...

Postby jkhuri44 » Thu Aug 02, 2012 3:37 pm

^ thats what i thought?
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Re: rant...

Postby Chris H » Thu Aug 02, 2012 4:06 pm

I am mainly going from memory of an article in AT a few years ago, but also
quoted from their webpage:
http://www.smartresearch.co.uk/
"Currently Smart Research have facilities in England and Australia."

oz webpage:
http://www.mae.com.au/index.php?option= ... 2&Itemid=9
UK web
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Re: rant...

Postby Chinagraf » Thu Aug 02, 2012 4:13 pm

HI Chris, they are shipped here from the UK. I've seen the boxes arrive. Mark is Al's distributor in Oz.
I think he may do warranty repairs here as he is also a really good tech. He used to have his office with us at our place.
It's now my mix room.
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Re: rant...

Postby Chris H » Thu Aug 02, 2012 4:54 pm

......well there you go. You don't want to beleive everything you read. :-?

jkhuri44 wrote:do you like argying with yourself chris ?

yep....always arguing with myself, just incase I'm wrong.....
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Re: rant...

Postby jkhuri44 » Thu Aug 02, 2012 4:59 pm

should have a forum war where its just you disagreeing with yourself. At least i will find it entertaining :D
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Re: rant...

Postby Chris H » Thu Aug 02, 2012 5:54 pm

jkhuri44 wrote:should have a forum war where its just you disagreeing with yourself. At least i will find it entertaining


I would be heard calling myself a bullshit artist far too often......... :|

anyway, I just got off the phone to Mark and yes the main manufacturing is in the UK BUT when Al was living in Melbourne about 5 yrs ago there was a Richmond engineering co where some assembly work and wiring was done and where Al did final inspection etc....so there was some truth in it.
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Re: rant...

Postby Sammas » Thu Aug 02, 2012 6:07 pm

Al Smart and Smart Research are about the damned slickest manufacturer I have dealt with... Even after stating that I purchased a C1 second hand for an absolute steal (which turned out to be a very early production unit), Alan himself replied to all my questions and bent over backwards to ship me out $24 in replacement cosmetic bits (switch caps, etc). He even included a lovely handwritten note in the envelope with something along the lines of "I hope that old C1 keeps people smiling for many years to come - Al".

On a side note, I paid Smart research into a local bank account but the parts shipped from the UK. So I do think they have some sort of facility here, but it might only be a small aspect of the overall operation.
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Re: rant...

Postby Sammas » Thu Aug 02, 2012 6:21 pm

Chris H wrote:
Chris H wrote:I think we have a right to be a bit jaded over the prices charged for pro audio here in oz. I continue to be mystified over this little price comparison for a product made here in Richmond.

C2 compressor.

Price from Uk distributor direct:
Uk pound
1950 --------------Au $2895

Us Mercenary price:
US $ 2950 --------Au $2817

Australian distributor direct:
Au $3515

As a certain infamous fish and chip proprietor would say......... Please Explain?


Caveat:
.........the UK price may or may not include VAT which is 20% :D



Turramusic list the C2 @ $3295 RRP including GST with a big "Contact us now" link suggesting that people won't actually pay anywhere near $3295.

Mercenary charge $2817AUD minus tax. You will still cop the 10% GST charge on top putting it at $3097AUD plus shipping.

If you import it from the UK you'd be looking at $2940AUD including GST plus shipping.

The prices aren't all that dissimilar. I don't know how it works for retailers who regularly import stuff, but as an individual you will also be slapped with a flat $50 or $60 fee from AQIS if they invoice you for GST upon the arrival of your shipment into Australia.
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Re: rant...

Postby The Tasmanian » Thu Aug 02, 2012 7:05 pm

Yes - when you do the math its only a little bit more than what you will probably pay to import it.
And if we are talking about in the end a $100-$200 saving - why not support the local retailers (the one that gives you the best discount)
The amount of times that Ive been in this exact situation, about to purchase - looking and wondering why this stuff is cheaper overseas, and after doing the calc's - just to save a few hundred $, its not worth leaving our OZ retailers out. Then you've got local warranty / support etc

But after costing in shipping, GST and other fees slugged by customs, if the saving is a lot more then bugger them - buy it overseas.
We really do need our Music store retailers (especially the little guys)
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Re: rant...

Postby Simon B » Fri Aug 03, 2012 12:03 am

If a product is within 10% of the us price I think the distributor needs a round of applause.
Hello my name is Simon Bray and I like guitar amps, currently at 20 something.

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Re: rant...

Postby Kurt » Fri Aug 03, 2012 12:15 am

With the free trade agreement there is no duty on USA made products. Dunno about on Australian made products being imported from the USA though..

That's also using the retail price as a direct comparison. Australians are very mark-up happy, you can bet ol'mate at the local music/wallet reaming shop is paying substantially less than the USA retail price (or he'd be buying them there too!)


Gian wrote:Dont forget imput duty and GST, following calc based on customs.gov.au

Customs value (Cval) = $2817
Customs duty (Duty) @ 5% of Cval = $140.85
International transport and insurance or postage (T&I) = $50 (I'm guessing this amount)
Value of the Taxable Importation (VoTI) (Cval+Duty+T&I) = $3007.85
Goods and Services Tax (GST) @ 10% of the VoTI = $300.79
Total payable Duty + GST = $3308.64
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Re: rant...

Postby Kurt » Fri Aug 03, 2012 12:18 am

I wouldn't go that far, but if he's much more than 10% over US price perhaps he doesn't deserve support...

Maybe the ACCC investigation into retail pricing disparity will do some good, though it's terms of reference seem pretty narrow (Software/hardware and music I think).

Simon B wrote:If a product is within 10% of the us price I think the distributor needs a round of applause.
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Re: rant...

Postby Hookemeister » Fri Aug 03, 2012 12:44 am

C2 compressor.

Price from Uk distributor direct:
Uk pound
1950 --------------Au $2895

Us Mercenary price:
US $ 2950 --------Au $2817

Australian distributor direct:
Au $3515



Lets pretend it was manufactured in Australia and work backwards just for the exercise.

Mercenary sells the item for AU$2817.

Lets say Mercenary have a modest markup of 10% which would equal AU$256.10
(Lot's of competition means their margins are much lower)

So if we subtract that we get the wholesale price of AU2560.90.

Now we need to allow for US import duty of 4.9% which equates to AU$119.60

Subtract that and you get AU$2441.30

So this is the Mercenary’s landed cost when it arrives in the US. In reality it would be less than that as there would be Customs clearance charges and transport costs to get it to Mercenary from its point of arrival.

AU$2441.30 landed in the US.

Now to get it to the US, the manufacturer has to use a freight forwarding company and pay shipping costs, so let’s just say that works out to be around $41.30 per unit.

That leaves us with AU$2400 when the product leaves the factory.


If the Australian retailer buys the product for that price we can now work out his markup.

First we’ll remove the 10% GST from the $3515 retail which equals = $319.55

That leaves us with $3195.45 Ex GST

From $3195.45 we subtract $2400 and you get a markup of $795.45

$795.45 equates to a markup of 33%.

Somewhere in the back of my head I remember being told that Australian music retailers work on a 30% markup, so that would sort of make sense.
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Re: rant...

Postby Milo » Fri Aug 03, 2012 9:47 am

Remember that its not usually the retailer who buys in - its the importer, who has a contract with the manufacturer. So the importer has to 1) make a profit, 2) have a mark-up so he can give a 40% discount to his retailer so the retailer is able to give a discount deal to the customer and at the same time make his 10%.
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Re: rant...

Postby GlennS » Fri Aug 03, 2012 10:42 am

Kurt wrote:With the free trade agreement there is no duty on USA made products. Dunno about on Australian made products being imported from the USA though..

That's also using the retail price as a direct comparison. Australians are very mark-up happy, you can bet ol'mate at the local music/wallet reaming shop is paying substantially less than the USA retail price (or he'd be buying them there too!)


Gian wrote:Dont forget imput duty and GST, following calc based on customs.gov.au

Customs value (Cval) = $2817
Customs duty (Duty) @ 5% of Cval = $140.85
International transport and insurance or postage (T&I) = $50 (I'm guessing this amount)
Value of the Taxable Importation (VoTI) (Cval+Duty+T&I) = $3007.85
Goods and Services Tax (GST) @ 10% of the VoTI = $300.79
Total payable Duty + GST = $3308.64


Free trade agreements have no bearing on GST, only duty. If we are still talking compressors, they are duty free regardless of which country they were manufactured in.
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Re: rant...

Postby ChrisW » Sat Aug 04, 2012 10:41 am

Having widely traveled over the last few years I've found the USA the cheapest, then the UK and Australia last.
I felt I was being price gouged when I lived in the UK. Now I realise how lucky I was not to be buying in Sydney.
Having said that...... I have found Aussie retailers have reacted to the higher valued Aussie dollar and prices for audio gear have gone down over the last few years. My eyes water when I look at drum pricing, or basics like drum heads and drum sticks though.
Aussies are overcharged for music and movie downloads IMHO. And tech companies like Apple, Panasonic and Sony charge significant premiums to Aussies, which is something I can't fathom.
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Re: rant...

Postby rick » Sat Aug 04, 2012 2:24 pm

Here is the certain truth
Al made my c1 in Melbourne .. About twenty years ago

I would hate to be the Aussie retailer
Trying to make a living off you guys

Just ring the guy up call a spade a spade
They will match the price for the sale
Or they won't
If they don't .. Speak with you wallet

Next time you want to try before you
Buy... That guy will be out of business
And the thread will be about
Wouldnt it be great to be able to try before you
Buy

I think what is actually happening
Is this tricky thing called the internet

As for jamils original beef
Well f@#$ knows those guys are uncomprehendable
At the best of times
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Re: rant...

Postby jkhuri44 » Sat Aug 04, 2012 2:48 pm

my original beef is not with a microphone retailer :P
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Re: rant...

Postby Chinagraf » Sat Aug 04, 2012 6:03 pm

Yeah I wasn't talking about a mic company either, but I didn't think others were able to pickup on that.
You see what i did there Jamil.. :o)
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Re: rant...

Postby jkhuri44 » Sat Aug 04, 2012 8:50 pm

no, i didnt see? :P
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Re: rant...

Postby Chinagraf » Sat Aug 04, 2012 11:40 pm

Maybe we're all talking about different things.. 8-}
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Re: rant...

Postby Chris H » Sun Aug 05, 2012 1:43 pm

rick wrote:Here is the certain truth
Al made my c1 in Melbourne .. About twenty years ago ...........



......well there you go. ;)
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Re: rant...

Postby Sammas » Sun Aug 05, 2012 2:30 pm

rick wrote:Here is the certain truth
Al made my c1 in Melbourne .. About twenty years ago



Certainly 'plains a thing or two!
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Re: rant...

Postby Sammas » Mon Aug 06, 2012 9:14 pm

jkhuri44 wrote:my original beef is not with a microphone retailer



Now I am confused! #-o
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Re: rant...

Postby chribble » Wed Aug 08, 2012 11:11 am

haha who were you talking about?

Sammas wrote:
jkhuri44 wrote:my original beef is not with a microphone retailer



Now I am confused! #-o
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Re: rant...

Postby jkhuri44 » Wed Aug 08, 2012 11:29 am

a certain guitar pickup manufacturer...that is all i'll say.
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Re: rant...

Postby Chinagraf » Wed Aug 08, 2012 1:00 pm

Hence my comment that I though people didn't 'pickup' on what I was saying.
Clever stuff.
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