Building a Room - product suppliers and brands thread

[Senad]

Justin, doesn't even have to be fire rated stuff between sheets..$4 a tube silicone would improve things somewhat too.
Has to be fire rated for gapping, because it's more flexible/won't crack.

[rick]

well you have to use a bit more then green glue because its not as sticky , but its a bit like a cake recipe as i dont have csiro data sheets to quote

senad .. dont get me wrong .. i am with you not against you .. its just the air pockets practically and the springyness factor .. i called up disagreement on

but really thats nothing .. it all works by green magic anyway

and of coarse i have really isolated the floor on independant rubbers and the roofs and the walls on complicated hanging rubbers andf THEN resilant strips ( or walls mostly on totally isolated AND FLOATING strawbails that chew up uber amounts of space .. which isnt practical for most builds )
but every where i used sheeting or yellow tounge sandwiches i have use grey glue .. lots of it and minimun to no screws

i have acheived the best "tap " test results i have ever seen anywhere in 25 + years
i was wacking the concrete floor and walls with hammers for weeks/ months working on different methods
its a lonely but intriguing process
I am sure of the process and results .. the science and theory .. well i went for over engineering rather then light weight magical cures

the overall point of this thread is in my unscientific test green or grey didnt matter except for price
and that i am sure we can agree on .. well at least the we can agree i am saying it

I reckon we can also agree on on green glues incredible marketing prowess .. nobody seems to really understand whats going on but we all need crates of it .. good thing is green
now i wonder if its actually made by fuller... eh hmm
?

[Junction]

..hmmm .. I would have thought creating a continuos layer of goo between two sheets of whatever would actually enhance transmission between the sheets, whereas minimising the coupling between two sheets by having more air pockets would enhance attenuation. An air gap between two layers in any circumstance is better than completely filling an air gap.

Imagine hitting one layer with high level low frequency content ... is that more likely going to transmit through to the second layer with a continuos layer of goo or with less and some air pockets? My money would be on having air pockets.

Have to agree with Rick, focus on getting the whole studio air tight, a 1/2mm gap in a door air seal will immediately downgrade your isolation performance and all the goo in the world wont compensate for that.

[Manning]

Michael - while not being an expert, but I think the reason for only one air gap is to avoid the "triple leaf" effect. One air gap interrupts the wave, but two air gaps allows the intermediate layer to resonate freely.

This seems worth reading:
http://www.soundproofingcompany.com/sou ... af-effect/

[rick]

well here is the scoop ,
sound really really hates travelling through a close circuit air field ( chamber )
no body is expecting you to create vacumm
( although you can buy glass acousic window with vaccum between the sheets)

the more close circuit air chambers you have for sound to travel through the better for general attenuation
but with thin sheet rock walls the practicalbility of the whole set up is what is actually being explained mostly to would be builders .. physics smisics .. a marshall on 11 seems to burn through most studio wall easily enough
another set of walls seperated by air chambers is the solution but its a space and cost issue

even then .. kick drums tend to ignore lots of rules of physics as applied home handiman ( and many professional builders)

that said , mass and close circuit air chambers is the total go .. and practically a drag to do .. so nearly nobody does

so back on the reality .. get the place air tight
i have a 2mm gap by a window right now .. my 2 meter thick walls are compromised by that little crack by the glass ..
i really should go out to the shed and fix it instead of talking about it !

[Senad]

OK..got some reply on the Green Glue issues we've been discussing here.

Seems like nobody is 100%, but I was a bit more right hahaha
My original question is at the bottom:

Hello Senad,

Thanks for your email.

Actually, the Green Glue compound doesn't fit into either of those categories (mass and decoupling), but the first argument is certainly closer to reality. Damping, which is what the Green Glue compound does, is a mechanism in itself to dissipate energy. Energy dissipation is the reduction of one type of energy where the lost energy is usually in the form of heat. The viscoelasticity of the compound dissipates sound waves and the result is the creation of a small amount of heat.

It's simplest to think of it this way. The 5 laws of sound isolation are:

1. Mass: generally speaking, the more the merrier
2. Absorption: must have insulation in any wall cavity to reduce internal reverberations.
3. Decoupling: it's always good to mechanically separate two sides of a wall or ceiling.
4. Damping: along with mass and decoupling, damping will change the resonance of a system.
5. Sealing: treat it like a fish tank...no leaks.

The best systems take into account all five laws. The point is that damping is a different mechanism compared to mass & decoupling. As far as small air pockets creating a mini triple-leaf system, it's possible that occurs, but some new research we've done suggests this is not the case at all.

It sounds like you have an interesting conversation happening! I hope we were able to clear up a couple things for you.

Thanks again,

Adam


Adam Burnett
Business Development Manager
The Green Glue Company
P: (518) 642-2200 x322
F: (518) 642-1707

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-----Original Message-----
From: xxxxxx@gmail.com [mailto:xxxxxx@gmail.com] On Behalf Of Senad
Sent: Wednesday, August 29, 2012 11:21 PM
To: Green Glue
Subject: Inquiry from Green Glue contact form

Submitted on Thu, 2012-08-30 03:21
Submitted by anonymous user: [124.180.173.108]
Submitted values are:

Name: Senad
Email: xxxxxxxx@bigpond.com
Message:
Hi guys,
We're just having a discussion on one of the pro audio forums about the Green
Glue. There are 2 different arguments being thrown out:
1. Green Glue is another layer of mass between two shets of drywall,
converting sound energy into heat by vibrating sympatheticaly under sound
waves that hit the drywall.
2. Green Glue is there to decouple 2 sheets of drywall and in that sense
provide more soundproofing.

I am the holder of the 1st argument and trying to put across that GG should
be evenly applied over the area of drywall sheet, so that no air pockets are
created between 2 sheets, which would inturn give (although small) effect of
triple leaf.
Could you please respond on this just to clear up some mist on the GG.
Thanks very much
Senad

[rick]

hey you didnt ask him if green glue was made by fuller !

i love that word he used "viscoelasticity"
it knocks any arguement i have out of the water .. sinks my whole fleet !

my method of decoupling absolutely works but is it because of heat or movement ...?
well my wall moves i can see it on the laser .. if i whack em

if its not movement and its "viscoelasticity" in the compound stopping the sound
and turning it into heat in the audio freqs parcticularly in the lower freq range

then i am calling bullshit on the entire process and product line !

however it works however you spell it
, putting goo in between the sheets actually and clearly does work
I reckon their answer is a cop out except to say look after everything and you should be fine

christ we are building boxes to make noise in .. we are going to be fine in any case

[Manning]

christ we are building boxes to make noise in .. we are going to be fine in any case

Rick, if we weren't arguing about this we'd have to start actually recording music, and who knows what kind of trouble that would cause.

[Senad]

i love that word he used "viscoelasticity"
it knocks any arguement i have out of the water .. sinks my whole fleet !

LOL

[jkhuri44]

yeah ,man, this is an audio forum, they're not about music. They're about something else i'm not sure about? Acousmacology

by the time you work out how to design rooms like this, i wonder if you'll still have time to make the music in em!

[Senad]

familiar to me...
4 years to research/design
4 years to build
3 1/2 years making music in it
who said no time for music