Quietwave...(?)

[Manning]

So has anyone tried this? I can't find anything on the forum about it. It's an Australian product, a thin membrane you install between gyprock (much like greenglue).

http://www.acoustica.com.au/quietwave.html

I'm just emailing them now to get a quote. As far as I can tell from the spec sheets it should compete favourably with green glue in terms of performance. I know nothing about cost as of yet. I've calc'd I need 50 sq m for my home iso booth, so that's $1000 worth of green glue. I'm hoping this comes in cheaper obviously, but we'll see.

[gigpiglet]

i think (hope) most people here will agree
it doesn't matter what the "product" is
as long as there is a product that isnt rigid, between each layer

a big tub of stud adhesive (like 40 litres or something) will cost you like 80 bucks i think??

for that price, if you are concerned about how good it will be, just add another layer of MDF.
you will be WAY ahead of your thousand dollars
and more mass (another layer) will beat any other "product" out there

[Manning]

A good point, and I do have available space.

I'm thinking a first wall of yellowtongue/mdf/gyprock and a second wall of mdf and gyprock should get it done (I'm fighting cockatoos and lorikeets primarily, and them little f**kers are loud).

However for interest's sake they got back to me with pricing... "QuietWave comes in rolls 1300 x 5400 and is 1.2mm thick $ / roll: $ 114.00 (+GST)". That works out to $16.28 (+GST) per sq m.

[gigpiglet]

and MDF is what - 40 bucks for 1.2x 2.4 so thats.... $15/ sqm
so same same
id say "cant hurt!"

[Senad]

i think (hope) most people here will agree
it doesn't matter what the "product" is
as long as there is a product that isnt rigid, between each layer

Yep..close.
I'd put it this way:

i think (hope) most people here will agree
it doesn't matter what the "product" is
as long as there is a product that is different and hopefully of high mass, between each layer.

So I would say gyprock-mdf-gyprock is much better than gyprock-rubber-gyprock. For the simple reason of MDF being much more rigid/massive than rubber.

Simple rule is: MAss provides isolation/soundproofing in combination with an air spring. So the ideal system is:
2 walls as massive as possible separated by an air gap as wide as possible. ONE AIR GAP ONLY.

[rick]

well the great thing about using yellow tongue in the sandwich is later you can just screw into to it to hang stuuf from it like panelling shelfs guitar stands , pictures .. lights
you can put them anywhere at will ... not just on the stud

that alone is worth the price of admission !

[Manning]

Indeed. I was out pricing stuff today and Yellowtongue is actually cheaper than the same mass/area of Gyprock.

So now I'm going with a double layer of YT on either side of the 90mm air space, with the option of adding a third layer if testing indicates it is necessary. I'm going to use a silicon sealant in the YT layers - at $1.90 a tube it is pretty cost effective.

[Mazystar]

I was under the impression that MDF, due to the density has better acoustic qualities then Yellow Tongue? Happy to be corrected

[Manning]

Sean - you're correct.

Yellowtongue, however, is almost half the price.

[Senad]

Indeed. I was out pricing stuff today and Yellowtongue is actually cheaper than the same mass/area of Gyprock.

So now I'm going with a double layer of YT on either side of the 90mm air space, with the option of adding a third layer if testing indicates it is necessary. I'm going to use a silicon sealant in the YT layers - at $1.90 a tube it is pretty cost effective.

Might be cheaper on a kg/m3 basis, but if you only use YT, you don't get the benefit of the two differetn materials hacking through the soundwaves. PLus, having the finishing layer in plasterrboard, makes it so much easier to finish off/decorate (paint).
Honestly, a layer of gyprock for that size booth would probably cost about $100. So why not on the inside wall have: YT-Gyp-YT-Gyp (Thats from outside-in) and say goodbye to lorykeets forever.

[Manning]

Yeah Sen, that's a good idea.

Ad you're right, it won't cost much and will only add a few cms.

[Senad]

Yeah Sen, that's a good idea.

Ad you're right, it won't cost much and will only add a few cms.

...and will add a good amount of isolation + gyprock provides easiest and best looking finish. Try filling/sanding/painting chipboard

[rick]

well i reckon senad is totally correct on all counts

the issue with mdf is the resonant freq .. its a ( almost) mono fibre construction where all the little bits of cardboard ar the same size .. thats good for density good for finish quality lousy for stopping sound at its resonant freq

i dont have the specs to prove it but i have seen and heard mdf built studios i reckon they sound and behave like the resonant freq is right in the middle of a noisy rock band ... F@#$ing horrible and useless as a wall product ..

mdf and yellow tongue are chalk and err ( wheetbix) but at least you can screw and nail into yellow tongue or mdf
so yes stick a layer under your gyprock

of coarse a gyprock room sounds shithouse as well so your going to have to treat it with foams and fabric materials .. and that stuff is where the expense you have forgotten to add on will show up

manning better start a foam and fabric thread .. i am going to run away while and read the doors thread

[gigpiglet]

very true... lots of my place is PLY instead of mdf (and sometimes when i talk about my construction i say mdf, i mean ply)
its expensive..
but i got it cheap.
;-)
like rick says (shit i keep agreeing with him!) the ability to screw things to the wall wherever you want is worth the price of admission!

[Manning]

Rick - yeah I know what I am building will be an acoustic nightmare, so I've been all over John Sayers website. My first plan is to build a bare cube, then I will build assymetric panels and add tons of foam.

I'll have an interior of about 16 m2, and I've set aside $1200, which gives me a budget of $75/sq m for acoustic treament. Hopefully that's enough.

[rick]

thats not enough

[Manning]

Ouch. What do you suggest?

[Senad]

Ouch. What do you suggest?

F..ck,,just wiped off half a page of text..Anyway, $1200 should be enough for treatment provided you buy materials and dIY. HAve you considered building a cube on the outside and splaying the internal walls in the first place, without waiting to reach the treatment stage. You will also need less treatment as your walls will be angled already and there'll be less flutter to get rid off. This would also improve your isolation from the outter shell as your air gaps would become wider (in some spots) between angled internal and external walls. You only need to splay 2out of 4 walls at, at least, 12 degree angle, which is around 10cm for every meter of length (don't quote me on that one but roundabout correct). So you might loose some space, but that will minimise standing waves most efficiently in your case, because of the mass of the walls you would splay. Along with some wideband absorption to finish off with, you, my friend, would have a pretty nice sounding booth.

[Manning]

Senad - sorry I missed this when you first posted it.

Yes, that "splayed" idea is where I am heading. I'll increase the air cavity by angling parts of the internal wall layers inwards.

Anyway, I have some photos to show:

Here are the frame sections roughly arrayed in the driveway (not their final location)


Here is the rubber between each joist:


And here is the clamping and ratcheting needed to get that rubber in there in the first place:


This is the floor in its final location in the carport (it is wrapped in builder's film for extra water protection)


Putting rubber underneath the first layer of yellowtongue.


And getting the first wall in place. I had to move the entire structure about 60cm so I can get the outer wall in place. I'll be moving it back flush against the wall when the outer wall on that side is finished. The floor has the 2nd layer of Yellowtongue, and a rubber film between it and the first layer (the white stuff).

[The Tasmanian]

Manning - well done, your on your way.
I must point out to others that may be looking at the pic's for DIY ideas - that the wall frame construction is weak, it has no strength bolted together in half - 2 x verticle halves bolted together would be better.
This is the norm for all wall building - also the small studs at the bottom should be inline with the ones above.
I'm not picking apart your work here - I'm pointing out a structural weakness in design, that if used in a situation with a load bearing ceiling, could end in a disaster, possibly a death.
Walls framing a room are NOT EVER constructed this way - film sets are - and pulled down straight after a shoot.
(I am a carpenter/joiner/builder by trade with decades of studio/house building experience)

So please anyone attempting to build a wall that will take weight ( a heavy ceiling) is strongly advised to have full height studs in a frame, with noggins at 1200mm minimum. and a double thickness top plate.

Its great to see some DIY rooms - but safety is imperative.

[Manning]

Chris

I should have pointed out that the ceiling will be hanging from the beams above it, and not supported by the walls I've built.

For construction reasons the ceiling also had to be two sections bolted together. As there was no way this would be structurally sound, the entire ceiling will be trussed to the 3" by 5" beams above it. The walls don't have to support anything other than the vertical yellowtongue panels (which are also self-supporting).

[The Tasmanian]

Cool - i thought yours could be a different ceiling structure.
But still - it should have, and would normally be constructed by a builder and carpenter in vertical sections.
Even for your situation. It has a weak spot right through the horizontal center.
If you fix your sheets vertically it will help strengthen this weak point.

I would be concerned if someone built a free standing shell like this - it would be asking for a disaster.
Again well done, not pickin on ya - its a big effort that deserves applause

[Manning]

Well I did my best - I can see what you mean with the design flaw, but it's too late now. I'll be doubly conscious about removing any load from the side walls though now. The sheets will all be vertical.

You would not believe how long I spent trying to find someone to help me design it. I was even waving money around but got no bites. So eventually I went with my own design.

Even for people on this forum only Rick and Senad replied (and Rick to say he would love to help but he just didn't have the time... still I was grateful for the courtesy). Senad certainly gave me a lot of tips but he's in Melbourne.

[The Tasmanian]

Youve done really well Manning - it is tough to get people experienced in soundproof man caves.
When I eventually go deaf - I'll have a second career!!
just make sure the sheets are vertical and screwed into the framework and you should be ok.
Are you using Yellowtounge or Gyprok for the lining?

[Manning]

Each side is two layers of vertical Yellowtongue with thin rubber sheets between them.

[Senad]

Looks great Manning.
I can understand Tasmanians point of view, but for something of this size you should really be right with the way you're doing it STRUCTURALLY. (the sheets will brace it together well enough, provided they extend vetically from floor to the ceiling in one piece)
Sound isolation wise, it is not how it should be, but for what it is, it will do the job. The main thing is that you've made the start, and it's not that big to take you too long anyway.
Best of luck my friend..
Keep the pics coming.

[jkhuri44]

i dont know squat about building, but in terms of frames, shouldn't there be diagonals somewhere? ie. diagonals are the strongest??

just asking here, to learn....not saying anything here is wrong, to be clear.

[gigpiglet]

no diagonals in my place! (though there are floor and ceiling plates and all the studs extend the full height)

[Senad]

i dont know squat about building, but in terms of frames, shouldn't there be diagonals somewhere? ie. diagonals are the strongest??

just asking here, to learn....not saying anything here is wrong, to be clear.

Not really needed as the walls are not load bearing (not carrying the roof). Noggins + sheeting will brace it up well enough. But if ytou really wanted to Manning, you can diagonally brace them up with some hoop iron and tensioners.
I used that on my house construction on my frame/truss manufacturer recommendation. Easiest and efficient way to do it.

[jkhuri44]

Ps. i bought one of those Ozito saws in the photo for $120..best value for money....ever!