What's with the sound on the arias?

[Wiz]

I just flicked over. They are inducting youthu yindi...it all sounds lke just room mics... Weird....

[rob]

yeah it is awful

[rick]

Well I was there
It was definately wierd at times clearly a bunch
Of technical issues going on

But god knows what the outside broadcast was doing
But it was stupidly stupidly loud

[rob]

well they must have kept all the loudness in the venue, cause none of reached my tv set.

[tunetown]

Horrible. It was like no direct mics. As Wiz said, All room mics. Embarrassing....!!

[jasound]

Well if it was stupidly loud in the venue that could be one reason for it sounding ambient on air.

[The Tasmanian]

That's what I was thinking - all that crap in every single mic.

[Wiz]

nah on the too loud, even the stuff that wasnt spoken into an open mic in the venue, eg when they put up a trailer for something on the screen, or when the band was playing (you are allowed to mute presenters microphones when they aint a spekin into em) , was awful.

To me, it was like whatever was meant work for the broadcast, didn't. I have recorded better live audio , side of stage with my little canon video camera (when the desk feed failed)if it can handle stage volume....?


(eg:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oAYERhXluAI

this was the audio from my canon hfs20, sitting stage left, on a tripod at edge of the stage, infront of the monitors and behind the FOH (nexo rig) I was supposed to get a multitrack recording of the show, I was gonna mix it all and sync it... a whoopsi from the sound guy made that go down the drain.. so out of my video camera and the 3 or 4 others, my camera had the only thing approaching sound that was useable) ... I am the dude who never visits the hairdresser... 8)... at first long hair was a choice, now as it thins out, its desperation LOL. )

At least it was only THE AUSTRALIAN RECORDING INDUSTRY awards, and nothing really to do with sound....

Also, lucky we have big aeromaplanes that can bring talented people from more betterer countries than ours, to help us hand out awards....

The sound should have been rocking, and awesome.

Presenters should be people from the Australian Industry, I would have loved to have seen people from the industry past and present handing out awards.

[rob]

I reckon the overall transmittion level was down by 15dB compared to other TV stations. And then when I wound up the wick on the stereos volume control so I could hear it the mix was shocking.
I wonder who did the broadcast mix?

[jkhuri44]

blame mp3s + GFC...mystery solved.

[ChrisW]

It's an event to promote music, not reward people, so I think they hire the presenters they think will attract the most viewers and publicity.
On the sound, it might be what Gigpiglet talked about on the Greenday thread, the client wanted as much audience reaction and atmos on the feed as possible.

[Chinagraf]

Yeah it's always a hard call isn't it.. sounds was a letdown, but you don't really know what they were up against. I find it hard to believe they would have had someone technically inept doing it. Would they....?

[obutcher]

I reckon the overall transmittion level was down by 15dB compared to other TV stations

I had to crank my TV. So loud when the ad's came on!

[mylesgm]

glad I wasn't doing it.

[Gentleman]

I've heard the TV Stations won't let outsiders come in and mix? ie TV soundguy does the mix for everyone. Might explain why it was appallingly bad?

[The Tasmanian]

It's an event to promote music, not reward people

Exactly
Wont be long and it will get knocked off its mantle piece - its relevance is quickly fading.
Its too inter connected with the old world media now that the major labels along with TV and newspapers are becoming increasingly irrelevant. Its whole business model is based/intertwined with TV and newspapers.

Something voted (owned) by the people will beat it into an early grave. (like the IF awards did to the film industry - came from nothing to be more relevant to all the film lovers than the AFI's)

JJJ unearthed is a much better creative boost for the industry - because people get to vote and engage, artists then get a real chance based solely on their music - not their record contract (remember those?), and the outcome is growth with more up and coming bands artists recording/rehearsing/gigging/promoting.

Its still healthy to have the ARIA's - but if they don't change their business model pronto...

[audioio]

glad I wasn't doing it.

Myles, if I'm interpreting that statement correctly, I reckon that if you were doing it it would have sounded a whole lot better.

But then, I didn't watch it. I'm surprised they still bother to put it on TV.

[ChrisW]

Awards that are voted for by the public are popularity contests.

Personally, I don't buy into any awards, like the Hall of fame, or The Grammy's or The Oscars.

[jasound]

I remember working on the music mix for a live broadcast of an opera. Our mix was sent to the broadcast truck to be mixed in with host mics and crowd atmos.
The broadcast truck audio mixer had just got a new surround MS mic and wanted to try it out as a crowd mic. He got a little to creative with side information and completely messed with the depth and image of our mix.
Next time we asked for a confidence return line from the broadcast truck.
Most of the engineers mixing high profile gigs like the Arias wouldn't f@#$ it up.
I suspect it's downstream of their work.

[NathS101]

I was just about to say what Jason said ^^. I'm also thinking the band mixes were sent to the truck and mixed in with ambience, MCs, tape replay etc... The two main guys in Sydney who just mix music for live TV broadcasts have a good standard and are well above the quality heard on Thursday night.
Lets just say the people I spoke to at work weren't impressed at all with the overall coverage including the audio, camera work, directing and editing & post audio on tape items.
I was told by people working directly on the delayed telecast that the audio sounded like that coming in from the OB and not at 9's end... Of course we're meant to get everything coming in and going out of the station at 0VU however I'm not too sure what the procedure is when it comes to bumping up the levels from OBs when it's all over the place (not my area).
Apparently it was Gearhouse who supplied the truck & crew including a freelance audio operator...
I have to say that it's on the Go! channel due to low ratings therefore no one really cares unfortunately. Where as if it's not perfect for the Logies you won't be asked back to work on it the following year...

[gigpiglet]

well i was there... gigpiglet presents look after all the pretty looking stuff on the red carpet.
and also the nova broadcast from backstage.
but as for in the room. i have worked on many arias in the past (onstage, at FOH, in trucks, and managing bands being presented them) but not this one.

i know that since the disaster at the opera house, changing to a new channel, new production company, new events company and manager - its never got back on its feet. but still not a good excuse for bad audio.

this event was at the syd entertainment centre -which is notorious for bad sound. and it was extremely loud in there. so i think thats the beginning of the issues.
there was plenty of OB truck there... all the big gearhouse ones. (and a lonely old looking ABC one, not sure what it was doing!)
from my experience broadcast has cleans splits of everything, as well as crowd/ atmos, and desk feeds. they do 2 days of rehearsals - and everything SHOULD be bang on. in the case of (for example) me looking after SIA 2 years ago, after our rehearsal, i wend to the OB truck and "approved" the mix that they had recorded. in theory on the night it shouldnt sound too different.

but hey since we are panning the audio. first thing i noticed that was poor form was the camera work!!
all in all just seemed like a pretty average broadcast/ event.

[AlCraig]

OK, time for a reality check guys.
There were 3 Audio Directors on the main production mixer in Gearhouse's HD1 truck.
Matt Gearing Thomas was the Head AD. He had presenter mics, winners mics, the voice over mic, a crowd master under his direct control. I was looking after playback elements & the music master(s) and Colin Telford was mixing the ambient mics (to a sub-group master under Matts finger). We had three assistants out in the venue wrangling talent and mics. The three guys (plus any talent reps) in ABC truck were doing the music mix using direct splits from side of stage. They had thier own ambience mics to add to their mix before they sent it over to me. That represents about 150 years of experience collectively.
Besides the 8 ambience mics the ABC guys hung, we added a further 4 mics. One each side of the stage on the diagonal truss pointing up into the fixed seating areas and another 2 hidden under the stage to hear the screams in the mosh pit. We were also firing some loops if the crowd petered out on us going to commercials (and to use during reshearsals to give it some sense of timing for production.)

I can assure you all that what was leaving our mixing desk sounded very good. Very solid music mixes using the venue sparingly as the "reverb chamber". Presenters and winners had a tendency to sound too ambient, but you get that if even only one mic is open and that mic is also bouncing all over the Entertainment Centre. Some crowd was mixed in to hear applause and screams when winners were announced. Playback ellements (nomination packages) also had some open crowd mics so the home viewer could stay emmersed in the emotion. Voice overs too.

Now, because the show started well before GO put it to air, some time-shifting had to take place. And the very nature of award shows dictate that some quick editing must be performed to fit the guts of the show into the allowed airtime.

So, our program signal (Stereo Master) was sent to Avid editors in a site shed in the compound, along with some isolated elements (presenters mics, dry band mixes, playback elements and a continuous pre-master ambience mix).
The editors edited, pushed the ready-for-air segments into an EVS server in the truck, which were then sent (via microwave links) up to GO, where I can only assume they were ingested into thier playback server, ready to be played out at the appropriate time.
So all I can say is, something went horribly wrong downstream from us. Don't know how, don't know where, don't know why.
Maybe Nathan can pick up the story from here.

Just wanted to let y'all know.
Shite happens
Al

[NathS101]

I was actually chatting again earlier tonight with our senior tape operator who was supervising the ingesting at GO. She said that it came in sounding munted and even the guys in the Master Control room were puzzled as to why it sounded so bad coming in from the OB.
After reading Al's post, I'd probably have to narrow it down to the editors... and I'm sure you can all agree most video editors know nothing about audio. It wouldn't surprise me at all if they left the software faders up at unity for the stereo mix AND all the isos. Do you guys also think that would that explain the ambience and level changes??
I'm not sure if something could have happened with the (EVS -> avid?? &) avid -> EVS transfer although I very much doubt it.
Was no one doing QC of the OB playout??

[jasound]

Video people say that audio is 10% of the program and 90% of the problem.
That's why it should be double checked after after they've mixed it with their eyes.
"Pre master ambience" might be part of puzzle.

[Chris H]

I am amazed that a final mix to air is left up to video editors to combine those elements????
After all the good work is done, as described, it seems that it was then undone to go to air! Quite amazing!
.....also amazing someone, whoever was overseeing quality control, didn't do something to sort it out after the first few minutes of it going to air.

[walding]

Not pointing the finger here, but is there a element of pass the buck here?

If any of the audio guys or their assistants heard what was
Going to air surely you would pick up the phone and ask what the f@#$ is going on.

Strange if you ask me.

[Chinagraf]

I've been friends with and worked with Matt for 20 years at least. If he'd heard what was going to air he would have addressed the issue.

[AlCraig]

I was actually chatting again earlier tonight with our senior tape operator who was supervising the ingesting at GO. She said that it came in sounding munted and even the guys in the Master Control room were puzzled as to why it sounded so bad coming in from the OB.

"Munted"? what is munted?
If she heard something odd, shouldn't she have raised a red flag?
And if the guys in Master Control were "puzzled”, shouldn't they have looked into it? Are they not also a point of QC? And what about Presentation?
What if the problem had been in the microwave link?
I remember a benefit concert on NINE several years ago that aired a signal that was left program on both left and right. You couldn’t hear the right half of the mix (where the 3rd harmony was, where the keyboard was). Sure, I know it’s busy and complicated in MC (and Pres), but with a premiere event like the ARIAs, a little extra attention should be given to the signal. You can bet that if ANYTHING were wrong with the video, they would have been all over it.

It wouldn't surprise me at all if they left the software faders up at unity for the stereo mix AND all the isos.

Don't know for certain, but I think this was the problem.

Was no one doing QC of the OB playout??

Admittedly, we (Matt and I) should have monitored the TX output, but on a show of this size, you put your trust in others to do their job.
And…
We were, after all, still knee deep in alligators and recording the live show as it was being aired. I feel like Master Control let us down by not chasing a low level, “munted”, ambient mix.

I am amazed that a final mix to air is left up to video editors to combine those elements????

The editors were never asked to do the final mix, only pass through the stereo program on tracks 1 & 2 of their workstations. Me thinks that is what they were monitoring, but maybe their virtual mixers were set to send all tracks out the Left and Right master.

Not pointing the finger here, but is there a element of pass the buck here?

No one is passing the buck, just trying to explain just how complex a show like this is and enlighten those who frequent this forum who aren't involved in broadcasting. Unlike our live sound brethren, who get to hear exactly what their audience hears, and you studio guys who can finish an album, burn a CD and then live with it in the car and in your living rooms, our mixes leave us and then go through at least another 20 or 30 processes (and processors) before it makes it to the living rooms. We have to depend on people and equipment down stream of us and hope that the home viewer is hearing what we are hearing.

If any of the audio guys or their assistants heard what was going to air surely you would pick up the phone and ask what the f@#$ is going on.

Walding, what "audio guys or their assistants" are you referring to?

[AlCraig]

If you want to hear the real mix, watch GO! today (Sat) at 15:30.

[Wiz]

If you want to hear the real mix, watch GO! today (Sat) at 15:30.

hey great will set the TV to record it so I can watch it tomorrow..thanks for the heads up...